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A big perpetrator of this is the designed environment surrounding car culture. I moved somewhere where there's plenty of foot traffic, specifically so my kid wi

A big perpetrator of this is the designed environment surrounding car culture. I moved somewhere where there's plenty of foot traffic, specifically so my kid will walk/bike to school and that is seen as completely normal. Most Americans do not understand how horrible car dependence is for personal independence, yet defend it to the end for some reason. It's really a shame.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
That doesn't really explain the changes over time in US behavior and child Independence. The US had a very strong car culture in the '50s to '80s as well, but children would still roam the streets on bicycle and on foot
- zhdc1 4y ago
  It’s one thing to accomodate cars, it’s another for the entire landscape to optimize against them. The average suburban family in the 1980s had a car. They also had well maintained sidewalks, civic organisations, and - in many cases - stores within walking or biking distance.
duxup 4y ago
I have trouble buying into this connection to car culture idea. I grew up in places with just cars, no transit options and kids roaming free, walking and biking to school was just normal.
- zhdc1 4y ago
  Population density. Post WW2 suburban communities had small roads (road width is a major factor in, i.e., how fast people feel safe driving), sidewalks, and - in general - were designed for a higher population density because this is what people wanted and were used to. Over time, development optimised for housing and garage space with lower population densities. No one wants to go outside and walk or play if there’s no where to go.
alar44 4y ago
[dead]
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Mostly because I hate walking.
mtrower 4y ago
Could you expound upon this? Specifically, why cars are bad for personal independence, but bicycles are just fine?
- em-bee 4y ago
  it's that everything is designed around cars. as a 15 year old i traveled through multiple countries in europe on my bike, alone. as a 17 year old in the US i was not able to go anywhere without getting a ride in a car. any interesting places to go to were to far away to even reach conveniently by bike. everything was designed around and dependent on cars. as a very independent youth i considered this experience an interesting lesson on what it means to be dependent, but most certainly growing up there would have been different. i have seen other youth struggling with the sudden change when they turned 18 and were expected to act like independent adults instead of the dependent youth they were until then.
  - mtrower 4y ago
    > any interesting places to go to were to far away to even reach conveniently by bike. Isn't this just a result of the country being more spread out in general? For this reason, cars are obviously useful. And because people have them... well, yes, it becomes circular. I think bikes are a pretty common thing to own in the U.S., though. Adults mostly use them for recreation, but minors definitely use them to get around. What part of the U.S. were you in? This is probably a large factor. > as a very independent youth i considered this experience an interesting lesson on what it means to be dependent, but most certainly growing up there would have been different. i have seen other youth struggling with the sudden change when they turned 18 and were expected to act like independent adults instead of the dependent youth they were until then. Generally in the U.S. you get your license as soon as possible (around 16), and work out whatever situation you can for a vehicle. It's true that we seem to be developing a dependency problem in the U.S., pushing maturity further and further out, but I don't think cars are the issue. Maybe in large cities; I can't really speak to the situation in those.
    - em-bee 4y ago

s1artibartfast 4y ago

That doesn't really explain the changes over time in US behavior and child Independence. The US had a very strong car culture in the '50s to '80s as well, but children would still roam the streets on bicycle and on foot

zhdc1 4y ago
It’s one thing to accomodate cars, it’s another for the entire landscape to optimize against them. The average suburban family in the 1980s had a car. They also had well maintained sidewalks, civic organisations, and - in many cases - stores within walking or biking distance.

duxup 4y ago

I have trouble buying into this connection to car culture idea. I grew up in places with just cars, no transit options and kids roaming free, walking and biking to school was just normal.

zhdc1 4y ago
Population density. Post WW2 suburban communities had small roads (road width is a major factor in, i.e., how fast people feel safe driving), sidewalks, and - in general - were designed for a higher population density because this is what people wanted and were used to. Over time, development optimised for housing and garage space with lower population densities. No one wants to go outside and walk or play if there’s no where to go.

alar44 4y ago

[dead]

throwawaysleep 4y ago

Mostly because I hate walking.

mtrower 4y ago

Could you expound upon this? Specifically, why cars are bad for personal independence, but bicycles are just fine?

em-bee 4y ago
it's that everything is designed around cars. as a 15 year old i traveled through multiple countries in europe on my bike, alone. as a 17 year old in the US i was not able to go anywhere without getting a ride in a car. any interesting places to go to were to far away to even reach conveniently by bike. everything was designed around and dependent on cars. as a very independent youth i considered this experience an interesting lesson on what it means to be dependent, but most certainly growing up there would have been different. i have seen other youth struggling with the sudden change when they turned 18 and were expected to act like independent adults instead of the dependent youth they were until then.
- mtrower 4y ago
  > any interesting places to go to were to far away to even reach conveniently by bike. Isn't this just a result of the country being more spread out in general? For this reason, cars are obviously useful. And because people have them... well, yes, it becomes circular. I think bikes are a pretty common thing to own in the U.S., though. Adults mostly use them for recreation, but minors definitely use them to get around. What part of the U.S. were you in? This is probably a large factor. > as a very independent youth i considered this experience an interesting lesson on what it means to be dependent, but most certainly growing up there would have been different. i have seen other youth struggling with the sudden change when they turned 18 and were expected to act like independent adults instead of the dependent youth they were until then. Generally in the U.S. you get your license as soon as possible (around 16), and work out whatever situation you can for a vehicle. It's true that we seem to be developing a dependency problem in the U.S., pushing maturity further and further out, but I don't think cars are the issue. Maybe in large cities; I can't really speak to the situation in those.
  - em-bee 4y ago