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This is neat and all, but the problem is very much downstream of the children-out-of-wedlock problem, which is downstream of so-called "sexual liberation" (a mi

This is neat and all, but the problem is very much downstream of the children-out-of-wedlock problem, which is downstream of so-called "sexual liberation" (a misuse of both the term "sexual" and the term "liberation"), which is downstream of an inconsistent sexual education, which is downstream of an inconsistent ethics of sex, which is downstream of the Fall (save for a few unmentioned steps).

acuozzo 4y ago
> but the problem is very much downstream of the children-out-of-wedlock problem If this were the case then there would be similar issues with children of single parents in e.g. European countries, no?
- Connor_Creegan 4y ago
  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-children-more-likely-than-children-in-other-countries-to-live-with-just-one-parent/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-childre... The problem is very-much downstream, not wholly-determined. Obviously this issue criss-crosses with other issues, such as race, infrastructure, compulsory education, et cetera. But I would rank doctrine of sex as the brightest star in this constellation. It isn't a coincidence that the UK is second behind us. Its founding event was the invention of divorce.
  - mvc 4y ago
    Yeah, everything was so much better when women just had to put up with their abusive husbands
    - Connor_Creegan 4y ago
      Not sure what constitutes "abuse" in your book, since it is an extremely vague charge and men and women tend to exercise their malevolence in ways befitting their own aptitudes (men typically with more brawn, women typically with more subtlety). But in any case, I hate to break it to you but divorce was not created for the purpose of "womens' liberation", it was created to justify serial monogamy.
genrilz 4y ago
I don't see what you are talking about here? The article is discussing passing laws to prevent CPS from charging people with child abuse for not helicopter parenting their children. As other people have mentioned, children aren't in much danger and so this increases their independence. I assume by children-out-of-wedlock problem you mean that there are more single parents now? (I have not checked if this is true) I don't understand how more parents being single is related to the CPS/busybody neighbors/police overreaching more though.
- Connor_Creegan 4y ago
  When you disintegrate the family unit, you stimulate the demand for outside intervention, especially in the form of state-backed "services". Like anything, because no one watches the watchers (except other watchers appointed appoint to watch the watchers that are not themselves watched), there is plenty of room for abuse of power. CPS has been out of control for decades now, and it largely has to do with the fact that in many states the first resort is removing the child from their parents. I'm not necessarily poopoo-ing the laws they're trying to pass, I'm just saying that these laws don't really address the bigger issue of the why these services were brought into being in the first place (widespread child abandonment and neglect in mostly industrialized areas), and they do not address the question of whether or not the genesis of these services has anything to do with why they behave the way they do.

acuozzo 4y ago

> but the problem is very much downstream of the children-out-of-wedlock problem If this were the case then there would be similar issues with children of single parents in e.g. European countries, no?

Connor_Creegan 4y ago
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-children-more-likely-than-children-in-other-countries-to-live-with-just-one-parent/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-childre... The problem is very-much downstream, not wholly-determined. Obviously this issue criss-crosses with other issues, such as race, infrastructure, compulsory education, et cetera. But I would rank doctrine of sex as the brightest star in this constellation. It isn't a coincidence that the UK is second behind us. Its founding event was the invention of divorce.
- mvc 4y ago
  Yeah, everything was so much better when women just had to put up with their abusive husbands
  - Connor_Creegan 4y ago
    Not sure what constitutes "abuse" in your book, since it is an extremely vague charge and men and women tend to exercise their malevolence in ways befitting their own aptitudes (men typically with more brawn, women typically with more subtlety). But in any case, I hate to break it to you but divorce was not created for the purpose of "womens' liberation", it was created to justify serial monogamy.

genrilz 4y ago

I don't see what you are talking about here? The article is discussing passing laws to prevent CPS from charging people with child abuse for not helicopter parenting their children. As other people have mentioned, children aren't in much danger and so this increases their independence. I assume by children-out-of-wedlock problem you mean that there are more single parents now? (I have not checked if this is true) I don't understand how more parents being single is related to the CPS/busybody neighbors/police overreaching more though.

Connor_Creegan 4y ago
When you disintegrate the family unit, you stimulate the demand for outside intervention, especially in the form of state-backed "services". Like anything, because no one watches the watchers (except other watchers appointed appoint to watch the watchers that are not themselves watched), there is plenty of room for abuse of power. CPS has been out of control for decades now, and it largely has to do with the fact that in many states the first resort is removing the child from their parents. I'm not necessarily poopoo-ing the laws they're trying to pass, I'm just saying that these laws don't really address the bigger issue of the why these services were brought into being in the first place (widespread child abandonment and neglect in mostly industrialized areas), and they do not address the question of whether or not the genesis of these services has anything to do with why they behave the way they do.