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The problem is that there are busy bodies that will involve third parties, possibly with good intentions, but still. For example > But people have very differ

The problem is that there are busy bodies that will involve third parties, possibly with good intentions, but still. For example > But people have very different ideas of what “proper supervision” entails (as you know if you have, say, a spouse). One parent lets their kids play outside at age 6, another not till 12. My kids play outside on their own now. At 3 and 6. My 6 year old has been doing so since about 3. Once she could follow basic rules (ie: dont go there). At their current age we let them ride bikes in the street even, with the older in charge and both having to get well off the road the minute they see cars. we watch them from the window but the point is to avoid intervening or helicoptering and allowing them to explore and be independent. In fact we have to limit some media/shows that portray the parents as toys (ie: Bluey) because we notice it tends to stunt their independence and skews their overall expectations of a parent child relationship.

em-bee 4y ago
some media/shows that portray the parents as toys (ie: Bluey) because we notice it tends to stunt their independence and skews their overall expectations of a parent child relationship. could you elaborate on that please? bluey seems to promote a healthy parent-child relationship (at least in the few episodes that i saw). how does it stunt their independence and skew their expectations? are you suggesting that showing parents that are always available gives the wrong idea to children about their parents? how would that play out?
- croutonwagon 4y ago
  There are many episodes where the treat the parent as a toy. Specifically the dad. For example. Theres an episode where the father is trying to give the kids a bath. They repeatedly ignore him that its time to be done playing it bathe. Or to stop splashing and make a mess. And by repeatedly i mean there's no control, eventually the Mom walks in and groans, there's a huge mess, kids still aren't bathed etc etc. Its an overarching theme that the dad is largely a toy. And even when he tries to be stern or strict its joked and laughed off and ignored. Moreover that the kids cant really have "fun" without the dad being actively playing. Overall the lesson is the kids learn the dad was right in the beginning and much effort would be saved by them listening, but that falls flat on a 3-6 year old passive listener (they do pick it up sometimes in the moment). And there are actual times where I CANT be actively playing. I love to but its a time and place thing. There are times i have to fix things, clean up, prep dinner, etc etc. And our style is the kids in those moments need to be able to go and play. Additionally, in our house, theres a time and place for playtime and joking and a time and place where you need to listen and do what we say. It can be a safety issue otherwise (ie: no stopping or listening in a store, parking lot, street etc). And even more the kids have to learn that when I say (or they say) "enough" that means enough and you need to respect the wishes of others, family or not. Overall Bluey is decent, better than most even, and certainly tries to break that 50-80's mold of parents "not your firends" and theres a huge barrier/gap. But with all things, theres a happy medium. So as a result we have to moderate their intake of it (and plenty of other shows too). Bluey is just a good example where the fanbase can be rabid in their support, and sometimes forget that kids are kids and dont understand context or "real" vs "fake" well at all, something we as grown ups see as second nature now.
ryandrake 4y ago
> The problem is that there are busy bodies that will involve third parties, possibly with good intentions, but still. Important point. These Childhood Independence laws are a good start, but they need to be paired with "Mind Your Own Business" laws that have strong penalties for people who call the police or protective services when there is no neglect. It's too easy for busy bodies to falsely report someone and wreck their lives over nothing--and then hide behind the ol' Good Intentions excuse. People should have to be able to verbally articulate evidence of abuse when they call in to report children playing in their front lawns or walking to the store, and if they don't, their victims should at least be able to sue them for damages. And if this also has the effect of cutting down the number of people casually calling the police on each other--all the better!
s1artibartfast 4y ago
I think that's a big point regarding parental expectations, both from the child's and the parents point of view. Lack of child Independence goes hand in hand with increased expectations on parents to provide for their children. If a child gets hurt, the expectations often that the parent failed for not helicoptering Enough and assuring a risk-free environment. I didn't live it but my impression is that earlier Generations took more of a s** happens attitude and hope that it would be a learning experience
- croutonwagon 4y ago
  Agree. And its important to find a doctor that would support that as well. For example our pediatrician actively looks down on parents that bring their kid in for every sniffle and has told me outright that it should be normal for kids to have bumps and bruises or even break a limb (of course in ways that are indicative of activity) as it shows the kid is developing across the board, including motor skills. > I didn't live it but my impression is that earlier Generations took more of a s* happens attitude and hope that it would be a learning experience I did and enjoyed that aspect and its one I want to allow my kids to experience. And the Pediatrician agrees. It goes hand in hand with why we are also avoiding overly competitive extra curriculars too, like baseball etc. I want them to be free after school to go play in the woods and be bored enough to get creative and explore the world around them.

em-bee 4y ago

some media/shows that portray the parents as toys (ie: Bluey) because we notice it tends to stunt their independence and skews their overall expectations of a parent child relationship. could you elaborate on that please? bluey seems to promote a healthy parent-child relationship (at least in the few episodes that i saw). how does it stunt their independence and skew their expectations? are you suggesting that showing parents that are always available gives the wrong idea to children about their parents? how would that play out?

croutonwagon 4y ago
There are many episodes where the treat the parent as a toy. Specifically the dad. For example. Theres an episode where the father is trying to give the kids a bath. They repeatedly ignore him that its time to be done playing it bathe. Or to stop splashing and make a mess. And by repeatedly i mean there's no control, eventually the Mom walks in and groans, there's a huge mess, kids still aren't bathed etc etc. Its an overarching theme that the dad is largely a toy. And even when he tries to be stern or strict its joked and laughed off and ignored. Moreover that the kids cant really have "fun" without the dad being actively playing. Overall the lesson is the kids learn the dad was right in the beginning and much effort would be saved by them listening, but that falls flat on a 3-6 year old passive listener (they do pick it up sometimes in the moment). And there are actual times where I CANT be actively playing. I love to but its a time and place thing. There are times i have to fix things, clean up, prep dinner, etc etc. And our style is the kids in those moments need to be able to go and play. Additionally, in our house, theres a time and place for playtime and joking and a time and place where you need to listen and do what we say. It can be a safety issue otherwise (ie: no stopping or listening in a store, parking lot, street etc). And even more the kids have to learn that when I say (or they say) "enough" that means enough and you need to respect the wishes of others, family or not. Overall Bluey is decent, better than most even, and certainly tries to break that 50-80's mold of parents "not your firends" and theres a huge barrier/gap. But with all things, theres a happy medium. So as a result we have to moderate their intake of it (and plenty of other shows too). Bluey is just a good example where the fanbase can be rabid in their support, and sometimes forget that kids are kids and dont understand context or "real" vs "fake" well at all, something we as grown ups see as second nature now.

ryandrake 4y ago

> The problem is that there are busy bodies that will involve third parties, possibly with good intentions, but still. Important point. These Childhood Independence laws are a good start, but they need to be paired with "Mind Your Own Business" laws that have strong penalties for people who call the police or protective services when there is no neglect. It's too easy for busy bodies to falsely report someone and wreck their lives over nothing--and then hide behind the ol' Good Intentions excuse. People should have to be able to verbally articulate evidence of abuse when they call in to report children playing in their front lawns or walking to the store, and if they don't, their victims should at least be able to sue them for damages. And if this also has the effect of cutting down the number of people casually calling the police on each other--all the better!

s1artibartfast 4y ago

I think that's a big point regarding parental expectations, both from the child's and the parents point of view. Lack of child Independence goes hand in hand with increased expectations on parents to provide for their children. If a child gets hurt, the expectations often that the parent failed for not helicoptering Enough and assuring a risk-free environment. I didn't live it but my impression is that earlier Generations took more of a s** happens attitude and hope that it would be a learning experience

croutonwagon 4y ago
Agree. And its important to find a doctor that would support that as well. For example our pediatrician actively looks down on parents that bring their kid in for every sniffle and has told me outright that it should be normal for kids to have bumps and bruises or even break a limb (of course in ways that are indicative of activity) as it shows the kid is developing across the board, including motor skills. > I didn't live it but my impression is that earlier Generations took more of a s* happens attitude and hope that it would be a learning experience I did and enjoyed that aspect and its one I want to allow my kids to experience. And the Pediatrician agrees. It goes hand in hand with why we are also avoiding overly competitive extra curriculars too, like baseball etc. I want them to be free after school to go play in the woods and be bored enough to get creative and explore the world around them.