6 ms·

Are people still using Django?

JodieBenitez 4y ago
Are people still using a mature, stable, battle-tested framework with tons of third-party resources, great documentation and excellent coverage of many business needs ? Yes, of course.
jd3 4y ago
I've seen this opinion on HN for years, but still don't _really_ understand it. Our cofounder built what is now a $1B+ SaSS company from some cursory SQL knowledge he gained while interning at a hospital in the early 2010's. The entire business is, in essence, a fancy graphical UI around postgres. I've now been writing django at work for five years and still have yet to come across a query builder/orm which is as powerful yet simple in addition to being a breeze to on-board new engineers with. When there are queries that require the use of non-django builtins, it's also relatively easy to use django raw sql or just straight up use the psycopg2 sql.SQL dynamic string composition helpers. With the complexity of some our chained django QueryMethods, the company would have quite literally been impossible to build without django's query builder, at the very least.
- ryanisnan 4y ago
  This is a double-edged sword in my opinion. The Django ORM is among my favourite ORMs, but the abstraction (like any) can cause problems over time. At scale, poorly understood ORM-generated queries can be a real pain, especially if your team's SQL skills have atrophied due to over-reliance on the ORM. As an exercise, I'd possibly recommend reviewing your top 1-3 worst performing queries, tracking them back to the ORM, and evaluating how to improve them.
  - andybak 4y ago
    > At scale People often overestimate how often the average website needs to worry about scale. And how easy it is to fix the times you come close.
    - ryanisnan 4y ago
      I completely agree, except for the last line. It is in my experience very hard to post-hoc get people to care about query performance. Organizationally and technically. In a complicated monolith at scale, de-tangling the ORM is a multi-years long project. Edited to say: as for the average website, I do completely agree. For the unique website that will scale as well, I likely would still 95/100 recommend the ORM, but my experience has taught me that there be some pain on the road.
      - fbdab103 4y ago
        Instagram uses Django, so I think it is possible to make anything work.
foobarbecue 4y ago
After a few years around the block (meteor, next.js), I'm back to Django. Got an mvp planetary web map annotation app up in no time, using Django DRF and just some plain hand-written js. Feels great to be back.
ryanisnan 4y ago
Not to be condescending or patronizing, but, well, I'm answering your question and it itself has a dismissive tone. Yes, people are still using Django. As I've grown in my career, frameworks, libraries, and architectural patterns just become tools. I don't quite understand folks who identify as a "React developer", or a "Django developer". When evaluating any framework, you must learn to eschew the latest hotness long enough to evaluate what your requirements are, and maybe most importantly, what your constraints are. For a surprising amount of projects today, I would still recommend Django above anything else.
axegon_ 4y ago
A lot. And it baffles me why hasn't anyone realized that Kenneth Reitz was right about django over a decade ago and all his points are equally valid today. https://speakerdeck.com/kennethreitz/flasky-goodness https://speakerdeck.com/kennethreitz/flasky-goodness
- shanebellone 4y ago
  Flask FTW.
  - ingenieroariel 4y ago
    If you like Flask (I do too), you can do what we used to do before Flask existed (./djngo.com -p project runserver) where .python/project.py in the zip is: import os from django.conf import settings from django.core import management from django.conf.urls import url from django.http import HttpResponse # Django 2.2 Release Notes # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/4.1/releases/2.2/ # Documentation # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/ __version__ = 0.1 DEBUG = True ROOT_URLCONF = 'project' DATABASES = {'default': { 'ENGINE': 'django.db.backends.sqlite3', 'NAME': 'project.db' }} SECRET_KEY = os.getenv('SECRET_KEY', 'Please set a SECRET_KEY as an env var.') if not settings.configured: settings.configure(**locals()) def index(request): return HttpResponse('Hello Django!') urlpatterns = [ url(r'^$', index), ] if __name__ == '__main__': # pragma: no cover management.execute_from_command_line()
    - shanebellone 4y ago
      The problem with Django is all the things that make it Django. Frankly, I'd build my own Flask from scratch, but I can't find a good excuse. With that being said, I hadn't thought much about "before Flask". I very well might feel differently if I had been coding then.
- andybak 4y ago
  It baffles me why you think a nuanced and good natured critique is a slam dunk.
pbreit 4y ago
If not django, what on python? Anything else besides flask?
- adparadox 4y ago
  https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/ https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/ is pretty awesome.
  - selcuka 4y ago
    I find https://django-ninja.rest-framework.com/ https://django-ninja.rest-framework.com/ even more awesome these days because it natively integrates with Django ORM, which I prefer over alternatives such as SQLAlchemy.
- wilsonfiifi 4y ago
  I would suggest Masonite [0]. It’s lightweight enough to replace Flask and has a plethora of built in features if you need to build a “production-ready” app. It tends to imitate Laravel in its project setup and naming conventions which, depending on your preference, can either be a boon or a bane. [0] https://docs.masoniteproject.com/ https://docs.masoniteproject.com/

Are people still using a mature, stable, battle-tested framework with tons of third-party resources, great documentation and excellent coverage of many business needs ? Yes, of course.

jd3 4y ago

I've seen this opinion on HN for years, but still don't _really_ understand it. Our cofounder built what is now a $1B+ SaSS company from some cursory SQL knowledge he gained while interning at a hospital in the early 2010's. The entire business is, in essence, a fancy graphical UI around postgres. I've now been writing django at work for five years and still have yet to come across a query builder/orm which is as powerful yet simple in addition to being a breeze to on-board new engineers with. When there are queries that require the use of non-django builtins, it's also relatively easy to use django raw sql or just straight up use the psycopg2 sql.SQL dynamic string composition helpers. With the complexity of some our chained django QueryMethods, the company would have quite literally been impossible to build without django's query builder, at the very least.

ryanisnan 4y ago
This is a double-edged sword in my opinion. The Django ORM is among my favourite ORMs, but the abstraction (like any) can cause problems over time. At scale, poorly understood ORM-generated queries can be a real pain, especially if your team's SQL skills have atrophied due to over-reliance on the ORM. As an exercise, I'd possibly recommend reviewing your top 1-3 worst performing queries, tracking them back to the ORM, and evaluating how to improve them.
- andybak 4y ago
  > At scale People often overestimate how often the average website needs to worry about scale. And how easy it is to fix the times you come close.
  - ryanisnan 4y ago
    I completely agree, except for the last line. It is in my experience very hard to post-hoc get people to care about query performance. Organizationally and technically. In a complicated monolith at scale, de-tangling the ORM is a multi-years long project. Edited to say: as for the average website, I do completely agree. For the unique website that will scale as well, I likely would still 95/100 recommend the ORM, but my experience has taught me that there be some pain on the road.
    - fbdab103 4y ago
      Instagram uses Django, so I think it is possible to make anything work.

foobarbecue 4y ago

After a few years around the block (meteor, next.js), I'm back to Django. Got an mvp planetary web map annotation app up in no time, using Django DRF and just some plain hand-written js. Feels great to be back.

ryanisnan 4y ago

Not to be condescending or patronizing, but, well, I'm answering your question and it itself has a dismissive tone. Yes, people are still using Django. As I've grown in my career, frameworks, libraries, and architectural patterns just become tools. I don't quite understand folks who identify as a "React developer", or a "Django developer". When evaluating any framework, you must learn to eschew the latest hotness long enough to evaluate what your requirements are, and maybe most importantly, what your constraints are. For a surprising amount of projects today, I would still recommend Django above anything else.

axegon_ 4y ago

A lot. And it baffles me why hasn't anyone realized that Kenneth Reitz was right about django over a decade ago and all his points are equally valid today. https://speakerdeck.com/kennethreitz/flasky-goodness https://speakerdeck.com/kennethreitz/flasky-goodness

shanebellone 4y ago
Flask FTW.
- ingenieroariel 4y ago
  If you like Flask (I do too), you can do what we used to do before Flask existed (./djngo.com -p project runserver) where .python/project.py in the zip is: import os from django.conf import settings from django.core import management from django.conf.urls import url from django.http import HttpResponse # Django 2.2 Release Notes # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/4.1/releases/2.2/ # Documentation # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/ __version__ = 0.1 DEBUG = True ROOT_URLCONF = 'project' DATABASES = {'default': { 'ENGINE': 'django.db.backends.sqlite3', 'NAME': 'project.db' }} SECRET_KEY = os.getenv('SECRET_KEY', 'Please set a SECRET_KEY as an env var.') if not settings.configured: settings.configure(**locals()) def index(request): return HttpResponse('Hello Django!') urlpatterns = [ url(r'^$', index), ] if __name__ == '__main__': # pragma: no cover management.execute_from_command_line()
  - shanebellone 4y ago
    The problem with Django is all the things that make it Django. Frankly, I'd build my own Flask from scratch, but I can't find a good excuse. With that being said, I hadn't thought much about "before Flask". I very well might feel differently if I had been coding then.
andybak 4y ago
It baffles me why you think a nuanced and good natured critique is a slam dunk.

pbreit 4y ago

If not django, what on python? Anything else besides flask?

adparadox 4y ago
https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/ https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/ is pretty awesome.
- selcuka 4y ago
  I find https://django-ninja.rest-framework.com/ https://django-ninja.rest-framework.com/ even more awesome these days because it natively integrates with Django ORM, which I prefer over alternatives such as SQLAlchemy.
wilsonfiifi 4y ago
I would suggest Masonite [0]. It’s lightweight enough to replace Flask and has a plethora of built in features if you need to build a “production-ready” app. It tends to imitate Laravel in its project setup and naming conventions which, depending on your preference, can either be a boon or a bane. [0] https://docs.masoniteproject.com/ https://docs.masoniteproject.com/