4 ms·

Yeah, that blew my mind. I mean the Vatican is essentially a country but where does that money come from?

e_i_pi_2 4y ago
Church-goers pay money to their local church in tithes (generally suggested as 10% of pre-tax wages), local churches pay to their regional church, regional churches pay to the Vatican, it's a bit of a pyramid scheme but people feel like they get value from it
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > it's a bit of a pyramid scheme In what way is this a pyramid scheme? If anything is like paying taxes to a local government, who then has to send (part of them) to the central government.
  - e_i_pi_2 4y ago
    Governments are also controlled by the people and use that money in the way we decide. The church has none of those safeguards so it's more like a private company that doesn't offers a debatably valuable service. I think of it similar to tarot readings - if it makes you feel better that's fine but they should still have to pay taxes as a business with income
  - diceduckmonk 4y ago
    That’s a terrible analogy. Local governments also request funds from the central government. Also, people pay taxes directly to central governments.
    - gattilorenz 4y ago
      > Local governments also request funds from the central government. That can happen with the Church as well, local priests get their "salary" from a central (at the national level, not the Vatican) institution > Also, people pay taxes directly to central governments. At least in Italy you can devolve 8/1000 of your taxes to the Church, and that's not your local church but again, the national-level institution (and they redistribute it to lower levels). I think in Germany it's very similar, and probably in other countries too.
      - e_i_pi_2 4y ago
        My main criticism for it being a pyramid scheme is that it's basically a very old version of self-help seminars, which overlap heavily with pyramid schemes, and they want a percentage of your income (your "downline"), and are encouraged to help recruit - so it has all the indicators
        gattilorenz 4y ago
        Except you are not requested any percentage of your income (most churchgoers give 1€/2€ per week, plus possibly a government-decided tax or tax discount, in no way mandatory), and you are not encouraged to help “recruit” (but to live your life as a christian. You are, I think, confusing the Catholic Church with Joevah’s witnesses or other denominations where the things you mention are common. You said in another post “I wasn't raised Catholic so can't speak to their practices”, except you seem to do that quite liberally…
- 4RealFreedom 4y ago
  "Christians are dispensed from the obligation of tithing ten percent of their incomes, but not from the obligation to help the Church." Source: https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-position-on-tithing https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-position-on-...
  - e_i_pi_2 4y ago
    > the Church teaches that offering some form of material support to the Church is obligatory for all Catholic adults who are able to do so, it doesn’t specify what percent of one’s income should be given I wasn't raised Catholic so can't speak to their practices, but this also seems to agree that it is suggested to devote some percentage of your income and it's kinda required if you're able to I think it should be more like - "Church service - $10 or free if you can't afford it", having it be tied to a percentage of the person's income is what makes it more of a pyramid scheme thing, and also seems to imply that the person owes their success to the church. I know a lot of people may believe that but it seems dangerous to encourage organizations to tell their members that they owe their success to the organization
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Church-goers pay money to their local church in tithes (generally suggested as 10% of pre-tax wages), local churches pay to their regional church, regional churches pay to the Vatican, it's a bit of a pyramid scheme but people feel like they get value from it

gattilorenz 4y ago
> it's a bit of a pyramid scheme In what way is this a pyramid scheme? If anything is like paying taxes to a local government, who then has to send (part of them) to the central government.
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  Governments are also controlled by the people and use that money in the way we decide. The church has none of those safeguards so it's more like a private company that doesn't offers a debatably valuable service. I think of it similar to tarot readings - if it makes you feel better that's fine but they should still have to pay taxes as a business with income
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  That’s a terrible analogy. Local governments also request funds from the central government. Also, people pay taxes directly to central governments.
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    > Local governments also request funds from the central government. That can happen with the Church as well, local priests get their "salary" from a central (at the national level, not the Vatican) institution > Also, people pay taxes directly to central governments. At least in Italy you can devolve 8/1000 of your taxes to the Church, and that's not your local church but again, the national-level institution (and they redistribute it to lower levels). I think in Germany it's very similar, and probably in other countries too.
    - e_i_pi_2 4y ago
      My main criticism for it being a pyramid scheme is that it's basically a very old version of self-help seminars, which overlap heavily with pyramid schemes, and they want a percentage of your income (your "downline"), and are encouraged to help recruit - so it has all the indicators
      - gattilorenz 4y ago
        Except you are not requested any percentage of your income (most churchgoers give 1€/2€ per week, plus possibly a government-decided tax or tax discount, in no way mandatory), and you are not encouraged to help “recruit” (but to live your life as a christian. You are, I think, confusing the Catholic Church with Joevah’s witnesses or other denominations where the things you mention are common. You said in another post “I wasn't raised Catholic so can't speak to their practices”, except you seem to do that quite liberally…
4RealFreedom 4y ago
"Christians are dispensed from the obligation of tithing ten percent of their incomes, but not from the obligation to help the Church." Source: https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-position-on-tithing https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-position-on-...
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  > the Church teaches that offering some form of material support to the Church is obligatory for all Catholic adults who are able to do so, it doesn’t specify what percent of one’s income should be given I wasn't raised Catholic so can't speak to their practices, but this also seems to agree that it is suggested to devote some percentage of your income and it's kinda required if you're able to I think it should be more like - "Church service - $10 or free if you can't afford it", having it be tied to a percentage of the person's income is what makes it more of a pyramid scheme thing, and also seems to imply that the person owes their success to the church. I know a lot of people may believe that but it seems dangerous to encourage organizations to tell their members that they owe their success to the organization

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]