3 ms·

Enterprise Java licenses are charged per developer seat, just saying.

by varjag 4y ago

lispm 4y ago
Hasn't this just recently changed to per employee? https://www.infoworld.com/article/3686611/oracle-per-employee-java-pricing-causes-concern.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3686611/oracle-per-employe...
- hajile 4y ago
  $15/mo or $180/yr. Lispworks for that same platform support would cost about $20,000 per dev the first year then a few thousand every year after. You could buy 100 years of enterprise Java support for Jay one year of Lispworks.
  - lispm 4y ago
    The Java license costs per employee. Not per developer. That's an entirely different business model in a very different market for a very different tool. It's a bit like claiming that your AMG Mercedes has a different pricing than a corporate car of a large fleet managed by a large rental company. That's trivially true, but you are comparing very different things.
oblio 4y ago
Any company worth their salt doesn't pay for that, though. Heck, even stuffy enterprises like banks, who usually pay for everything, frequently don't do that. The main JDK distros are big and stable enough to make this strategy viable in an enterprise environment.
- abudabi123 4y ago
  Are there studies on the rate of project success comparing effort in A: JDK, .NET; and B: Go, Lisp at high status yacht racing sponsored by big names? There was a headline indicating failure is 68% all over in tech. And, does paying for it more and more make a difference to success overall? Banks were leaving their terminals on overnight with bright white screens without powering them off which crypto entrepreneurs could have used the power for grinding out tokens.
  - oblio 4y ago
    > Are there studies on the rate of project success comparing effort in A: JDK, .NET; and B: Go, Lisp No, there aren't and anyone saying otherwise is lying. Almost all relevant data is tightly locked up in corporate software development silos (FAANG, enterprise middle ware, website or mobile dev shops, game devs, etc). The few studies that we have are limited to academic (basically toy projects) or OSS settings (and we don't really have the behind the scenes info from the corporate sponsors) and their sample sizes are pitiful. Plus, what even is success? Adoption after 1 year? After 10 years (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/07/21/good-software-takes-ten-years-get-used-to-it/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/07/21/good-software-take...)? What we can measure instead is the number of developers, jobs, projects started based on public announcements, etc. And for that it's no contest. Java/C# >> Go >>>>>>> Lisp. The reasons are less important than the facts on the ground. Especially since Common Lisp was first proposed in 1982 (41 years ago), so a really long time ago. However, its rivals aren't spring chickens either, these days. Java was launched in 1995, 27 years ago (early Java devs are close to retirement, already), C# was launched in 2000, 23 years ago, heck, even Go was launched in 2019, that's 13 years ago. So we're in a reality were we have multiple competing ecosystems that are big and developed and have been around for decades. So the mainstream ones will be major for a long time.
- varjag 4y ago
  Oh wow so offering a paid tool when free ones are available is not the offense after all, as we are finding out!

Enterprise Java licenses are charged per developer seat, just saying.

by varjag 4y ago

Enterprise Java licenses are charged per developer seat, just saying.

Hasn't this just recently changed to per employee? https://www.infoworld.com/article/3686611/oracle-per-employee-java-pricing-causes-concern.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3686611/oracle-per-employe...

hajile 4y ago
$15/mo or $180/yr. Lispworks for that same platform support would cost about $20,000 per dev the first year then a few thousand every year after. You could buy 100 years of enterprise Java support for Jay one year of Lispworks.
- lispm 4y ago
  The Java license costs per employee. Not per developer. That's an entirely different business model in a very different market for a very different tool. It's a bit like claiming that your AMG Mercedes has a different pricing than a corporate car of a large fleet managed by a large rental company. That's trivially true, but you are comparing very different things.

oblio 4y ago

Any company worth their salt doesn't pay for that, though. Heck, even stuffy enterprises like banks, who usually pay for everything, frequently don't do that. The main JDK distros are big and stable enough to make this strategy viable in an enterprise environment.

abudabi123 4y ago
Are there studies on the rate of project success comparing effort in A: JDK, .NET; and B: Go, Lisp at high status yacht racing sponsored by big names? There was a headline indicating failure is 68% all over in tech. And, does paying for it more and more make a difference to success overall? Banks were leaving their terminals on overnight with bright white screens without powering them off which crypto entrepreneurs could have used the power for grinding out tokens.
- oblio 4y ago
  > Are there studies on the rate of project success comparing effort in A: JDK, .NET; and B: Go, Lisp No, there aren't and anyone saying otherwise is lying. Almost all relevant data is tightly locked up in corporate software development silos (FAANG, enterprise middle ware, website or mobile dev shops, game devs, etc). The few studies that we have are limited to academic (basically toy projects) or OSS settings (and we don't really have the behind the scenes info from the corporate sponsors) and their sample sizes are pitiful. Plus, what even is success? Adoption after 1 year? After 10 years (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/07/21/good-software-takes-ten-years-get-used-to-it/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/07/21/good-software-take...)? What we can measure instead is the number of developers, jobs, projects started based on public announcements, etc. And for that it's no contest. Java/C# >> Go >>>>>>> Lisp. The reasons are less important than the facts on the ground. Especially since Common Lisp was first proposed in 1982 (41 years ago), so a really long time ago. However, its rivals aren't spring chickens either, these days. Java was launched in 1995, 27 years ago (early Java devs are close to retirement, already), C# was launched in 2000, 23 years ago, heck, even Go was launched in 2019, that's 13 years ago. So we're in a reality were we have multiple competing ecosystems that are big and developed and have been around for decades. So the mainstream ones will be major for a long time.
varjag 4y ago
Oh wow so offering a paid tool when free ones are available is not the offense after all, as we are finding out!