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I’m gonna be that guy: cryptocurrency fixes this.

Heston 4y ago
Cryptocurrency suffers from the same problems if not worse. There have been billions stolen in cryptocurrency due to no regulations and a lack of accountability. In many cases the one robbing the exchanges were the owners themselves...
ipaddr 4y ago
Imagine paypal as a crypto exchange holding your keys. Same outcome. The issue is trust and paypal.
- latchkey 4y ago
  That's why we have decentralized exchanges.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- weberer 4y ago
  Don't put your wallet in someone else's computer.
JohnFen 4y ago
It might prevent you from being banned without reason, but it also eliminates the ability to claw back scammed money.
- junofan 4y ago
  You mean the PayPal buyer protection program? How does it work?
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    I mean using cryptocurrency to pay for things.
    - junofan 4y ago
      How does using crypto eliminate the ability to claw back scammed money? There are services that use crypto as payment rails and also offer scam protection.
      - mr_mitm 4y ago
        Then we're back to being at risk of being banned for no reason, though. Can't have it both ways.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        What mr_mitm says. Also, once you're using services like that, what's the point of using cryptocurrency at all? What is it buying you?
- latchkey 4y ago
  Zelle is in the US, backed by major banks, and good luck with a claw back. "But Zelle’s terms are clear: You can’t cancel a payment once it’s been sent if the recipient is already enrolled with Zelle. And if you send money to someone you don’t know for a product or service, you may not get your money back for a product or service that’s not delivered." https://www.elliott.org/problem-solved/how-to-get-your-money-back-from-a-zelle-scam-or-accidental-money-transfer/ https://www.elliott.org/problem-solved/how-to-get-your-money...
  - kube-system 4y ago
    That page explains exactly how to do so, via legal protections. The difference with crypto is that you're not going to be filing a Regulation E dispute against someone on the other side of the planet.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      >That page explains exactly how to do so, via legal protections. "Since Regulation E is virtually unknown outside of the financial services industry, few people — let alone customers — know the process of filing a claim." Oh come on. Zelle and the banks are literally banking on the fact that they are protected by exactly these sorts of unknown processes. Are you really advocating for more of that? > The difference with crypto The difference with crypto is that contracts, written in code, can be used to do escrow that don't require a third party centralized company like Zelle to handle the transfers. They also work across borders. No need to tie up the US legal system with 'Regulation E' cases over $1700 rent payments or having to hire lawyers to sue banks. My point is that, we can work to make this stuff better, or we can keep the status quo of having to learn about 'regulation e'. I'm on the side of working to make this better.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        The article in the OP is a great example of why removing humans and relying on code is fraught with issues. The problem is that money is often used to exchange for value and things outside of a computer, where smart contracts have little to no reliable mechanism for determining fulfillment of contract conditions. Although, I'm sure smart contracts will be of great use for moving around digital goods.
- valcron1000 4y ago
  > but it also eliminates the ability to claw back scammed money I got scammed 500 USD using Wise, so it's not like these services help you in any way.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    I don't understand the relevance, though. I'm not comparing cryptocurrency to other new services. I'm comparing it to the more traditional services. That said, with things like Wise (which I'd never heard of until your comment), it pays to read the fine print and avoid the ones that don't offer any real protection for you.
kube-system 4y ago
Does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox
- computing 4y ago
  I'm not batting for either team here, but you just linked one of the PayPals of crypto - ie a company that holds onto your funds on your behalf. So it's not really a rebuttal to their comment.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I did so intentionally. The fact that crypto has still 'PayPals' is exactly my point. Whatever mechanism of value exchange you come up with, there will be intermediaries who pop up to move it around in different ways. Crypto does not 'solve' this.
    - computing 4y ago
      I know that you know exactly what they meant by “crypto solves this”, but you’re just be snarky here and that’s okay
- exolymph 4y ago
  You don't have to custody on exchanges.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    You don't have to put money in a bank.
    - ronsor 4y ago
      You do if you want to send it online.
      - 4y ago
colesantiago 4y ago
No it doesn’t at all. It makes the problem even worse.

Cryptocurrency suffers from the same problems if not worse. There have been billions stolen in cryptocurrency due to no regulations and a lack of accountability. In many cases the one robbing the exchanges were the owners themselves...

ipaddr 4y ago

Imagine paypal as a crypto exchange holding your keys. Same outcome. The issue is trust and paypal.

latchkey 4y ago
That's why we have decentralized exchanges.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
weberer 4y ago
Don't put your wallet in someone else's computer.

JohnFen 4y ago

It might prevent you from being banned without reason, but it also eliminates the ability to claw back scammed money.

junofan 4y ago
You mean the PayPal buyer protection program? How does it work?
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I mean using cryptocurrency to pay for things.
  - junofan 4y ago
    How does using crypto eliminate the ability to claw back scammed money? There are services that use crypto as payment rails and also offer scam protection.
    - mr_mitm 4y ago
      Then we're back to being at risk of being banned for no reason, though. Can't have it both ways.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      What mr_mitm says. Also, once you're using services like that, what's the point of using cryptocurrency at all? What is it buying you?
latchkey 4y ago
Zelle is in the US, backed by major banks, and good luck with a claw back. "But Zelle’s terms are clear: You can’t cancel a payment once it’s been sent if the recipient is already enrolled with Zelle. And if you send money to someone you don’t know for a product or service, you may not get your money back for a product or service that’s not delivered." https://www.elliott.org/problem-solved/how-to-get-your-money-back-from-a-zelle-scam-or-accidental-money-transfer/ https://www.elliott.org/problem-solved/how-to-get-your-money...
- kube-system 4y ago
  That page explains exactly how to do so, via legal protections. The difference with crypto is that you're not going to be filing a Regulation E dispute against someone on the other side of the planet.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    >That page explains exactly how to do so, via legal protections. "Since Regulation E is virtually unknown outside of the financial services industry, few people — let alone customers — know the process of filing a claim." Oh come on. Zelle and the banks are literally banking on the fact that they are protected by exactly these sorts of unknown processes. Are you really advocating for more of that? > The difference with crypto The difference with crypto is that contracts, written in code, can be used to do escrow that don't require a third party centralized company like Zelle to handle the transfers. They also work across borders. No need to tie up the US legal system with 'Regulation E' cases over $1700 rent payments or having to hire lawyers to sue banks. My point is that, we can work to make this stuff better, or we can keep the status quo of having to learn about 'regulation e'. I'm on the side of working to make this better.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The article in the OP is a great example of why removing humans and relying on code is fraught with issues. The problem is that money is often used to exchange for value and things outside of a computer, where smart contracts have little to no reliable mechanism for determining fulfillment of contract conditions. Although, I'm sure smart contracts will be of great use for moving around digital goods.
valcron1000 4y ago
> but it also eliminates the ability to claw back scammed money I got scammed 500 USD using Wise, so it's not like these services help you in any way.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I don't understand the relevance, though. I'm not comparing cryptocurrency to other new services. I'm comparing it to the more traditional services. That said, with things like Wise (which I'd never heard of until your comment), it pays to read the fine print and avoid the ones that don't offer any real protection for you.

kube-system 4y ago

Does it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

computing 4y ago
I'm not batting for either team here, but you just linked one of the PayPals of crypto - ie a company that holds onto your funds on your behalf. So it's not really a rebuttal to their comment.
- kube-system 4y ago
  I did so intentionally. The fact that crypto has still 'PayPals' is exactly my point. Whatever mechanism of value exchange you come up with, there will be intermediaries who pop up to move it around in different ways. Crypto does not 'solve' this.
  - computing 4y ago
    I know that you know exactly what they meant by “crypto solves this”, but you’re just be snarky here and that’s okay
exolymph 4y ago
You don't have to custody on exchanges.
- kube-system 4y ago
  You don't have to put money in a bank.
  - ronsor 4y ago
    You do if you want to send it online.
    - 4y ago

colesantiago 4y ago

No it doesn’t at all. It makes the problem even worse.