3 ms·

This is extremely interesting data, and not what I would have expected. I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in fi

by baumy 4y ago

This is extremely interesting data, and not what I would have expected. I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in finding new positions, but assumed engineers had still been hit harder than that link shows. For companies outside the big techs that are still wildly profitable and sitting on mountains of cash, laying off people is largely about refocusing on actual profitable activity. Keeping engineers around makes sense for them. For companies that are on the cusp of profitability, or still actively burning through money, layoffs seem to be more about reducing burn, which means you're more likely to lay off highly paid engineers. Still, 5% seems low. How do you square this with the observation that every open SDE role at a company that pays at least somewhat decently seems to have hundreds of applications? If so few SDEs were really laid off, I wouldn't expect the SDE hiring market to have turned as drastically as it did since last summer / fall.

philsnow 4y ago
> For companies that are on the cusp of profitability, or still actively burning through money, layoffs seem to be more about reducing burn, which means you're more likely to lay off highly paid engineers. Bothering to do a layoff only makes sense if management wants to see the company survive. So, assuming that the only outcomes being targeted are the ones in which the company is still alive, consider the cost of replacing the employee later: at least right now, engineers are more expensive to hire than most other roles[0], so it could cost less overall to lay off HR/recruiting with the expectation that you'll backfill those roles in 9-18 months. [0] for various reasons; to hire for any given role, you have to source, engage/recruit, interview (which takes up the time of the people on the team they'll join), somehow pick one or more of the candidates, make offers, and then onboard them. These costs are largely the same for any role, except that interviewing engineers costs engineering time (and it's harder to get enough quality candidates in the top of the funnel for engineers than other roles, so you have to spend more HR/recruiter time there).
ok_dad 4y ago
> assumed engineers had still been hit harder than that link shows That's what they want you to assume, that way us engineers feel pressure to fall in line. Welcome to the disinformation era.
bobthepanda 4y ago
5% is still pretty substantial, and the hiring market has not expanded to keep pace in a relatively short time. Also, tech does have a lot of people on visa compared to other industries, who need to find a job within 60 days of termination or leave the country.
wolpoli 4y ago
> I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in finding new positions Wouldn't HR and recruiting folks be able to look for work with companies the broader economy?
908B64B197 4y ago
> I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in finding new positions, but assumed engineers had still been hit harder than that link shows. Hardest hit positions are "tech adjacent". > For companies that are on the cusp of profitability, or still actively burning through money, layoffs seem to be more about reducing burn, which means you're more likely to lay off highly paid engineers. Twitter was an example of that, but it was massively overblown by the media due to the company profile (and the identity of the buyer!). Companies trimming senior talent are also slowing down the pace at which they can ship new features and products. That's ok short term, but longer terms, those that will be able to secure funding to keep their engineering will get ahead. > How do you square this with the observation that every open SDE role at a company that pays at least somewhat decently seems to have hundreds of applications? If so few SDEs were really laid off, I wouldn't expect the SDE hiring market to have turned as drastically as it did since last summer / fall. How many serious applications?
roncesvalles 4y ago
>How do you square this with the observation that every open SDE role at a company that pays at least somewhat decently seems to have hundreds of applications? This has always been the case.

by baumy 4y ago

philsnow 4y ago

> For companies that are on the cusp of profitability, or still actively burning through money, layoffs seem to be more about reducing burn, which means you're more likely to lay off highly paid engineers. Bothering to do a layoff only makes sense if management wants to see the company survive. So, assuming that the only outcomes being targeted are the ones in which the company is still alive, consider the cost of replacing the employee later: at least right now, engineers are more expensive to hire than most other roles[0], so it could cost less overall to lay off HR/recruiting with the expectation that you'll backfill those roles in 9-18 months. [0] for various reasons; to hire for any given role, you have to source, engage/recruit, interview (which takes up the time of the people on the team they'll join), somehow pick one or more of the candidates, make offers, and then onboard them. These costs are largely the same for any role, except that interviewing engineers costs engineering time (and it's harder to get enough quality candidates in the top of the funnel for engineers than other roles, so you have to spend more HR/recruiter time there).

ok_dad 4y ago

> assumed engineers had still been hit harder than that link shows That's what they want you to assume, that way us engineers feel pressure to fall in line. Welcome to the disinformation era.

bobthepanda 4y ago

5% is still pretty substantial, and the hiring market has not expanded to keep pace in a relatively short time. Also, tech does have a lot of people on visa compared to other industries, who need to find a job within 60 days of termination or leave the country.

wolpoli 4y ago

> I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in finding new positions Wouldn't HR and recruiting folks be able to look for work with companies the broader economy?

908B64B197 4y ago

> I'm aware HR and recruiting folks are having much much harder times than engineers in finding new positions, but assumed engineers had still been hit harder than that link shows. Hardest hit positions are "tech adjacent". > For companies that are on the cusp of profitability, or still actively burning through money, layoffs seem to be more about reducing burn, which means you're more likely to lay off highly paid engineers. Twitter was an example of that, but it was massively overblown by the media due to the company profile (and the identity of the buyer!). Companies trimming senior talent are also slowing down the pace at which they can ship new features and products. That's ok short term, but longer terms, those that will be able to secure funding to keep their engineering will get ahead. > How do you square this with the observation that every open SDE role at a company that pays at least somewhat decently seems to have hundreds of applications? If so few SDEs were really laid off, I wouldn't expect the SDE hiring market to have turned as drastically as it did since last summer / fall. How many serious applications?

roncesvalles 4y ago

>How do you square this with the observation that every open SDE role at a company that pays at least somewhat decently seems to have hundreds of applications? This has always been the case.