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I have a friend who recently went through a very negative experidnmce with supprt team from Framework... My friend is quite the hardware expert, and has built

I have a friend who recently went through a very negative experidnmce with supprt team from Framework... My friend is quite the hardware expert, and has built and fixed computers of all types for decades, and his hardware skills are second-to-none. He bought a framework laptop for his significant other several months ago - let's say somryhing like 5 or 6 months ago. The SO used the laptop, then had to use a diffeent machine for work...so left the Framework unplugged for about 1.5 ~ 2 months....so of course, the battery lost its charge. This is not the issue. Subsequently,. when my friend's SO retuned to start using the new machine again, it woulkd not start nor charge, etc. Hey, components fail for every hardware maker, so not a big deal. After many negative interactions between my friend and Framework support, it seems like there is a bug in hardware that Framework blamed on Intel compoenent which potentially can prevent from batteries charging....in addition, somehow it also inhibits computer from using it while connected to non-battery power...in other words, the computer is not able to be used at all. Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated that even though the machine was well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable nor even somthing Framewokr was willing to swap out...So my friend and his SO are no stuck with no refund nor replacement, and an unsable computer. Their only recourse now is legal. I'm sure there are other details that my friend did not inform me about. But if this is happening to others - the poor support from Framework team - then this is quite worrying indeed. I counted myself as a big fan of Framework, and i definitely was going to get myself one whenever i am due to get a new laptop...but after hearing this horrorible experience fro my friend, i will be hol;ding back from buying anything Framework related for quite some time. @martin_a If you will be looking into Framework, please do whatever research you can into their returns/refunds policies. Also, I don;t know how to go about this, but: please research what other experieneces other folks have had with their support department. Good luck!

martin_a 4y ago
Thanks, that is important information! I'll try to find some of the more problematic experiences.
idiotsecant 4y ago
Of course the plural of anecdote is not data but: I also bought a framework for my SO, I was amazed by how easy it was to open up and work on and how much effort they went through to make it all cleanly modular and simple to service. My SO has been using it daily for months and loves it. I love how easy it is to maintain it. It's a perfect laptop for us! I love this thing to the extent that I feel an emotional need to defend it. Great hardware.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  Good for you, and glad that you have not experienced the horrible state of affairs that my friend is now stuck in.
kkielhofner 4y ago
Chiming in with another Framework experience. I've talked about it plenty on HN before but generally speaking my maxed-out Intel 11th Gen Framework has been the most regrettable large technology purchase of my life. Bugs like the one you've described are just the beginning. BTW, they did acknowledge their culpability in this somewhat and finally released a BIOS update for this issue in August of last year. However, that doesn't do you any good as you're already in your situation. The BIOS alone clearly has many outstanding bugs and with the release of the Intel 12th Gen Frameworks the 11th Gen has been all but forgotten by Framework. Just looking at the list of issues they addressed in a recently announced[0] BIOS update for 12th Gen (no mention of 11th Gen) gives you an idea of the issues present (and more) in the 11th Gen. For many of us our laptops are our tools for our livelihoods. As painful as it was to write-off a $2500 purchase I finally gave up, went out and bought a MacBook Pro at less than half the price, and have been infinitely happier since. The lesson here is - hardware is hard and fundamental. Buying hardware from a startup is generally a bad idea. [0] - https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-thunderbolt-4-certified https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-thunderbol...
- mxuribe 4y ago
  That's painful, and I'm sorry you had to shell out more for yet another laptop.
rchaud 4y ago
>Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated that even though the machine was well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable It is precisely for this reason that every PC I have bought has been a Dell with a 3 yr warranty and next-business-day Onsite service.
zerocrates 4y ago
The issue of running down the CMOS battery is well documented, and I believe there are hardware-level alterations in their second revision that avoid it, both from Intel and from Framework altering their internals so the main battery can keep the CMOS battery charged. My understanding of that problem is that it's not fatal or permanent: it's a "remove the battery and clear the CMOS" kind of situation that's required to get things working again. A case where it was really permanently unable to charge or operate and was within the warranty period, I don't know how a replacement/refund would be avoidable in that case.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  Yep, clearing of cmos and other tasks were tried by my friend...As noted, he's got decades of experience on all sides of deep hardware support (including not only consumer but also very much on vendor side, etc.)...and yet Framework flatly refused any replacement, repair, or refund. Quite horribly disappointing.

martin_a 4y ago

Thanks, that is important information! I'll try to find some of the more problematic experiences.

idiotsecant 4y ago

Of course the plural of anecdote is not data but: I also bought a framework for my SO, I was amazed by how easy it was to open up and work on and how much effort they went through to make it all cleanly modular and simple to service. My SO has been using it daily for months and loves it. I love how easy it is to maintain it. It's a perfect laptop for us! I love this thing to the extent that I feel an emotional need to defend it. Great hardware.

mxuribe 4y ago
Good for you, and glad that you have not experienced the horrible state of affairs that my friend is now stuck in.

kkielhofner 4y ago

Chiming in with another Framework experience. I've talked about it plenty on HN before but generally speaking my maxed-out Intel 11th Gen Framework has been the most regrettable large technology purchase of my life. Bugs like the one you've described are just the beginning. BTW, they did acknowledge their culpability in this somewhat and finally released a BIOS update for this issue in August of last year. However, that doesn't do you any good as you're already in your situation. The BIOS alone clearly has many outstanding bugs and with the release of the Intel 12th Gen Frameworks the 11th Gen has been all but forgotten by Framework. Just looking at the list of issues they addressed in a recently announced[0] BIOS update for 12th Gen (no mention of 11th Gen) gives you an idea of the issues present (and more) in the 11th Gen. For many of us our laptops are our tools for our livelihoods. As painful as it was to write-off a $2500 purchase I finally gave up, went out and bought a MacBook Pro at less than half the price, and have been infinitely happier since. The lesson here is - hardware is hard and fundamental. Buying hardware from a startup is generally a bad idea. [0] - https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-thunderbolt-4-certified https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-thunderbol...

mxuribe 4y ago
That's painful, and I'm sorry you had to shell out more for yet another laptop.

rchaud 4y ago

>Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated that even though the machine was well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable It is precisely for this reason that every PC I have bought has been a Dell with a 3 yr warranty and next-business-day Onsite service.

zerocrates 4y ago

The issue of running down the CMOS battery is well documented, and I believe there are hardware-level alterations in their second revision that avoid it, both from Intel and from Framework altering their internals so the main battery can keep the CMOS battery charged. My understanding of that problem is that it's not fatal or permanent: it's a "remove the battery and clear the CMOS" kind of situation that's required to get things working again. A case where it was really permanently unable to charge or operate and was within the warranty period, I don't know how a replacement/refund would be avoidable in that case.

mxuribe 4y ago
Yep, clearing of cmos and other tasks were tried by my friend...As noted, he's got decades of experience on all sides of deep hardware support (including not only consumer but also very much on vendor side, etc.)...and yet Framework flatly refused any replacement, repair, or refund. Quite horribly disappointing.