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This is the key issue, the same has been happening with eggs. The prices supermarkets pay have to start reflecting fair value for farmers, if that means food go

This is the key issue, the same has been happening with eggs. The prices supermarkets pay have to start reflecting fair value for farmers, if that means food goes up so be it, people should grow more at home. There should also be more competition in food growth, something that doesn't really seem to happen at all. Monoculture, where we remove the countryside and plant only one crop in a whole field, which then needs hundreds of tonnes of water and tonnes of pesticides spread all over it is inefficient, and killing our environment + natural diversity. We should grow food closer to where it's consumed, and people should grow their own veg.

seagullriffic 4y ago
While I agree with you, I'm fairly sure the average UK household's veg requirements are larger than the average UK household garden. I'd love to see some affordable vertical farms small enough to keep at home.
- callamdelaney 4y ago
  Something like this would grow a good portion of needed vegetables with a little training and minimal work. https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1398989330/ https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1398989330/
YellOh 4y ago
> Monoculture, where we remove the countryside and plant only one crop in a whole field, which then needs hundreds of tonnes of water and tonnes of pesticides spread all over it is inefficient, and killing our environment + natural diversity. Industrial farming (single-plant fields, though hopefully with crop rotation) is actually much more efficient[0]. Pesticides, (artificial) fertilizers, and irrigation drastically increase yield, both per unit land and per unit labor. It's generally worse for ecosystems and long-term sustainability, but that doesn't mean it's inefficient. As far as growing things locally - I don't see why this would matter much. Transporting food usually accounts for <10% of its carbon footprint, while for foods like beef it's more like 0.5%[1]. Local food makes the supply more resilient to foreign political/environmental issues (for obvious reasons), but I doubt it's the biggest issue or should be a priority. Trying to switch to local organic food is mostly just going to serve to make food less affordable to the average person. Alternatively, we could change what we eat and subsidize, and therefore make more meaningful changes while also keeping core nutrients affordable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture#Benefits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture#Benefits [1] https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
- callamdelaney 4y ago
  Hydroponics produces much higher yields given the same area of land, according to this study [0] yields of tomatoes are at least 6x higher given the same growing area as soil, so if less land is needed growers could be local - the benefits of this aren't only environmental but there are communal benefits too. Ripping out hedgerows to create bigger fields in the name of 'efficiency' is driving down bird populations across the continent [1][2] - and I'm sure birds aren't the only type of animal affected. So why don't farmers switch to something like hydroponics? People can effectively operate small systems from home, which wouldn't cover all of their needs but a not insignificant portion. Fresher, better food with less impact on the environment. [0] https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/06/average-yields-per-acre-of-hydroponic-crops.html https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/06/average-yields-per-... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/26/eu-farming-policies-bird-population https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/26/eu-farmi... [2] https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-you-can-help-birds/where-have-all-the-birds-gone/is-the-number-of-birds-in-decline/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-you-ca...
  - YellOh 4y ago
    Interesting! Thank you for the links. I was thinking of intercropping; hadn't properly considered hydroponics. It does seem like hydroponics is drastically superior for space and water efficiency, though the comparison study I'm looking at claims it takes 82x the electricity[0] (though it's from a different climate). No disagreements on birds. Industrial farming may be efficient, but it's extraordinarily destructive to the local system. In a reclaimed farm I volunteered at, the heavy machinery compacted the soil so thoroughly that "regular" plants couldn't grow there until after years of dedicated soil-rejuvenation projects (and therefore it was difficult to get local flora/fauna to return, even when making an active effort). A lot of the effects of industrial agriculture last longer than I naively expected. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4483736/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4483736/
    - jwestbury 4y ago
      > In a reclaimed farm I volunteered at, the heavy machinery compacted the soil so thoroughly that "regular" plants couldn't grow there until after years of dedicated soil-rejuvenation projects The effect you may be referring to here is the "plough pan," and it's not just a result of heavy machinery, but also specifically of plough design which features a mouldboard, which drags along the ground creating a layer of heavily compacted soil. Heavy machinery can cause this, too, but ploughing is much more effective at ruining land! This is being somewhat mitigated recently by the increasing use of chisel ploughs, fortunately!

seagullriffic 4y ago

While I agree with you, I'm fairly sure the average UK household's veg requirements are larger than the average UK household garden. I'd love to see some affordable vertical farms small enough to keep at home.

callamdelaney 4y ago
Something like this would grow a good portion of needed vegetables with a little training and minimal work. https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1398989330/ https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1398989330/

YellOh 4y ago

> Monoculture, where we remove the countryside and plant only one crop in a whole field, which then needs hundreds of tonnes of water and tonnes of pesticides spread all over it is inefficient, and killing our environment + natural diversity. Industrial farming (single-plant fields, though hopefully with crop rotation) is actually much more efficient[0]. Pesticides, (artificial) fertilizers, and irrigation drastically increase yield, both per unit land and per unit labor. It's generally worse for ecosystems and long-term sustainability, but that doesn't mean it's inefficient. As far as growing things locally - I don't see why this would matter much. Transporting food usually accounts for <10% of its carbon footprint, while for foods like beef it's more like 0.5%[1]. Local food makes the supply more resilient to foreign political/environmental issues (for obvious reasons), but I doubt it's the biggest issue or should be a priority. Trying to switch to local organic food is mostly just going to serve to make food less affordable to the average person. Alternatively, we could change what we eat and subsidize, and therefore make more meaningful changes while also keeping core nutrients affordable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture#Benefits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture#Benefits [1] https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

callamdelaney 4y ago
Hydroponics produces much higher yields given the same area of land, according to this study [0] yields of tomatoes are at least 6x higher given the same growing area as soil, so if less land is needed growers could be local - the benefits of this aren't only environmental but there are communal benefits too. Ripping out hedgerows to create bigger fields in the name of 'efficiency' is driving down bird populations across the continent [1][2] - and I'm sure birds aren't the only type of animal affected. So why don't farmers switch to something like hydroponics? People can effectively operate small systems from home, which wouldn't cover all of their needs but a not insignificant portion. Fresher, better food with less impact on the environment. [0] https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/06/average-yields-per-acre-of-hydroponic-crops.html https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2020/06/average-yields-per-... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/26/eu-farming-policies-bird-population https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/26/eu-farmi... [2] https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-you-can-help-birds/where-have-all-the-birds-gone/is-the-number-of-birds-in-decline/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/how-you-ca...
- YellOh 4y ago
  Interesting! Thank you for the links. I was thinking of intercropping; hadn't properly considered hydroponics. It does seem like hydroponics is drastically superior for space and water efficiency, though the comparison study I'm looking at claims it takes 82x the electricity[0] (though it's from a different climate). No disagreements on birds. Industrial farming may be efficient, but it's extraordinarily destructive to the local system. In a reclaimed farm I volunteered at, the heavy machinery compacted the soil so thoroughly that "regular" plants couldn't grow there until after years of dedicated soil-rejuvenation projects (and therefore it was difficult to get local flora/fauna to return, even when making an active effort). A lot of the effects of industrial agriculture last longer than I naively expected. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4483736/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4483736/
  - jwestbury 4y ago
    > In a reclaimed farm I volunteered at, the heavy machinery compacted the soil so thoroughly that "regular" plants couldn't grow there until after years of dedicated soil-rejuvenation projects The effect you may be referring to here is the "plough pan," and it's not just a result of heavy machinery, but also specifically of plough design which features a mouldboard, which drags along the ground creating a layer of heavily compacted soil. Heavy machinery can cause this, too, but ploughing is much more effective at ruining land! This is being somewhat mitigated recently by the increasing use of chisel ploughs, fortunately!