5 ms·

When I read about the death of the universe I always ask myself, why any of the things we do on this little planet would matter, not that I'm not enjoying it he

by mikub 4y ago

When I read about the death of the universe I always ask myself, why any of the things we do on this little planet would matter, not that I'm not enjoying it here sometimes. But if you think about it we are already pretty insignificant compared to the 'size' of the universe, but if you start thinking about 'time' that's really crazy. I mean no matter what you accomplish down here, nobody will remember it in a few million years, and in a few billion years, everything will be gone. So anything ever accomplished will be lost for all eternity. But on the other hand if you die one day it propably doesn't matter for you anymore if one day goes by, or a billion years. So somehow your universe already dies when you die. :)

lordfrito 4y ago
This philosophy (and some existentialism) helps me deal with meaningless of it all. [1]. Find personal meaning in spite of things, let that be enough. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism
- mikub 4y ago
  Yes, that and still be curious about the things happening around you. I mean, if nothing really matters it can also take the pressure off.
kwanbix 4y ago
How can we know what is going to happen to something we don't know about? I mean, 99% of what we "know" about the universe is pure theory or speculation. Or what am I missing here?
- mikub 4y ago
  Well I was talking from what science currently says will happen to the universe, if there maybe is anything else beyond that I cannot say. But I'm more than happy to find out if my day has come, until then I try to make the best out of things.
ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
Meaning is never external. We project meaning as an outside entity through the looking glass of ego: desire for recognition, power, love, and so forth. Meaning has always been internal: "Whoever will be free must make [themselves] free. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self" [1], to have the will to give yourself a meaning. [1] Max Stirner, https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Stirner#:~:text=Unsourced%20sections.-,Whoever%20will%20be%20free%20must%20make%20himself%20free,-.%20Freedom%20is%20no https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Stirner#:~:text=Unsourced%...
- puffybuf 4y ago
  So what if determinism is true? Does responsibility even make sense in an ultimate sense? And any meaning you give yourself is dependent upon past environmental history.
  - ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
    There are layers and language is very impractical in these matters (not to say utterly useless considering the 10+ gigabytes of textual philosophical speculation from the past 2,400+ years). One way to think about it is akin to a stack trace: there is the quantum indeterminacy of the electron -> there is the deterministic CPU building on top of electrons (`mov eax, 0` achieves the same state on any x86) -> there are indeterministic effects facilitated by CPUs (the network effects of users interacting using CPUs). In a similar fashion, yes, each of us is composed from cells with proteins coded in DNA strings, however those cells are able to reach a collective intelligence which is able to run a simulation/model of the world coupled with a simulation/model of the high-level internal state and we call this coupling, in the usual parlance, a "self". This self then goes to decide, based on the past experiences, present goals, and future predictions and hopes, but a decision nonetheless, what determines it-self. As said, these words, i.e. decide, determines, are very loaded and begging the (multiple series of) questions, going through various viewpoints from Sartre and Simone Weil, to Kierkegaard, back to Plotinus [1]. In other words, from a strong Robert Sapolsky-based position: surely determinism is true, we operate on the realm of the regulation of the side-effects of bio-electro-chemical reactions, not on the realm of quarks, however, responsibility in the ultimate sense makes just as much sense as calling someone an "adult" once they are 18 years and 0.1 seconds old: it's an arbitrary determination which allows further operation (breaks the epoché [2], the withholding of assent or the phenomenological bracketing, if you will). The meanings one gives for themselves are indeed dependent upon past environmental history, yet the point is what you make from what the world makes of you: it's a tertiary and beyond type of operation, across the multiple societal-physical abstraction layers, not direct control. [1] "the One above intellect, the first principle of all", https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plotinus/#:~:text=the%20One%20above%20intellect%2C%20the%20first%20principle%20of%20all https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plotinus/#:~:text=the%20O... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch%C3%A9

by mikub 4y ago

lordfrito 4y ago

This philosophy (and some existentialism) helps me deal with meaningless of it all. [1]. Find personal meaning in spite of things, let that be enough. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

mikub 4y ago
Yes, that and still be curious about the things happening around you. I mean, if nothing really matters it can also take the pressure off.

kwanbix 4y ago

How can we know what is going to happen to something we don't know about? I mean, 99% of what we "know" about the universe is pure theory or speculation. Or what am I missing here?

mikub 4y ago
Well I was talking from what science currently says will happen to the universe, if there maybe is anything else beyond that I cannot say. But I'm more than happy to find out if my day has come, until then I try to make the best out of things.

ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago

Meaning is never external. We project meaning as an outside entity through the looking glass of ego: desire for recognition, power, love, and so forth. Meaning has always been internal: "Whoever will be free must make [themselves] free. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self" [1], to have the will to give yourself a meaning. [1] Max Stirner, https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Stirner#:~:text=Unsourced%20sections.-,Whoever%20will%20be%20free%20must%20make%20himself%20free,-.%20Freedom%20is%20no https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Stirner#:~:text=Unsourced%...

puffybuf 4y ago
So what if determinism is true? Does responsibility even make sense in an ultimate sense? And any meaning you give yourself is dependent upon past environmental history.
- ly3xqhl8g9 4y ago
  There are layers and language is very impractical in these matters (not to say utterly useless considering the 10+ gigabytes of textual philosophical speculation from the past 2,400+ years). One way to think about it is akin to a stack trace: there is the quantum indeterminacy of the electron -> there is the deterministic CPU building on top of electrons (`mov eax, 0` achieves the same state on any x86) -> there are indeterministic effects facilitated by CPUs (the network effects of users interacting using CPUs). In a similar fashion, yes, each of us is composed from cells with proteins coded in DNA strings, however those cells are able to reach a collective intelligence which is able to run a simulation/model of the world coupled with a simulation/model of the high-level internal state and we call this coupling, in the usual parlance, a "self". This self then goes to decide, based on the past experiences, present goals, and future predictions and hopes, but a decision nonetheless, what determines it-self. As said, these words, i.e. decide, determines, are very loaded and begging the (multiple series of) questions, going through various viewpoints from Sartre and Simone Weil, to Kierkegaard, back to Plotinus [1]. In other words, from a strong Robert Sapolsky-based position: surely determinism is true, we operate on the realm of the regulation of the side-effects of bio-electro-chemical reactions, not on the realm of quarks, however, responsibility in the ultimate sense makes just as much sense as calling someone an "adult" once they are 18 years and 0.1 seconds old: it's an arbitrary determination which allows further operation (breaks the epoché [2], the withholding of assent or the phenomenological bracketing, if you will). The meanings one gives for themselves are indeed dependent upon past environmental history, yet the point is what you make from what the world makes of you: it's a tertiary and beyond type of operation, across the multiple societal-physical abstraction layers, not direct control. [1] "the One above intellect, the first principle of all", https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plotinus/#:~:text=the%20One%20above%20intellect%2C%20the%20first%20principle%20of%20all https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plotinus/#:~:text=the%20O... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch%C3%A9