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Municipalities should be allowed to lock down their zoning if they want to. That's democracy. This idea that we have to elevate all power to the state or feder
by debacle 4y ago
Municipalities should be allowed to lock down their zoning if they want to. That's democracy.
This idea that we have to elevate all power to the state or federal government is antidemocratic. It doesn't matter if it's zoning, education, building codes, etc.
Historically, the state/federal government has acted as a facilitator of local control, but more and more it seems as though one of the goals is to take local control away.
I am not for this. Not because I'm against housing, but because I'm against taking away local control.
- klodolph 4y agoHistorically, local governments have made a large number of horrible / immoral decisions, and sometimes the state or federal powers step in to override them. This is a constitutional democracy.
- debacle 4y ago95% of municipalities are in the wrong here? Doubtful.
- klodolph 4y agoWhat is the reasoning here? Why do you say that it is doubtful?
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoCheck the rent prices in 95% of the Bay Area vs. median income.
- mjburgess 4y agoEveryone, a priori, thinks "local control" means local power. But unfortunately it doesn't. It means the worst sort of leisurely fools who happen to be your neighbors monopolizing local power, at everyone's expense. This is the problem with "democracy" as such. In the american mythology it's about self-governance, but the more "direct, local" one makes it, the more absurd such a proposition becomes. As an empirical matter, people cannot govern themselves. People are too poor in time, energy, concern, care, etc. to do so; and those who arent are the least fit to do it. Democracy was never, nor should be, about "self-governance". It's about accountability. It's simply a mechanism to prevent tyranny. The right "level" of democracy is one which maximises one's daily experienced freedom. And "local democracy" so often is a daily oppression on those who experience it. America is overwhelmed by local corruption, housing-associations, and the like. It's one of the major reasons I would never live there.
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoHow good is the democracy when you need to live somewhere to participate but all of the land is already owned and there aren’t many rental options so rent is too high? Not everyone needs to be able to live anywhere but as a Bay Area resident I think a lot about the masses of people that work in my city but can’t afford to live there. And they have no vote on how that city manages housing even though they’re an important member of its economy.
- dmitrygr 4y ago> How good is the democracy when you need to live somewhere to participate That is literally how it should work. That is why I (living in Austin) do not vote for local elections in Berlin.
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoShould have said “sleep” not “live”. Working somewhere full time should entitle you to some say.
- dmitrygr 4y agoHm, I am not sure that my nanny or housekeeper should have a say in how I run my household. The cooks at McDonalds do not get to say how McD runs their business. I would argue that that scales up correctly.
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoWorkers should have a say in their working environment. Unions are the best way to ensure that. A nanny can’t exactly employ collective bargaining so unionization won’t work there, but most people aren’t working alone so that’s an exception.
- dmitrygr 4y agoYou are right. Working environment. They can opine about that. House prices aren’t working environment, they are sleeping environment as you said.
- triceratops 4y agoAll cities exist at the pleasure of the state.
- sollewitt 4y agoSome cities are the state! (Singapore, Vatican City, Monaco)
- triceratops 4y agoYeah, they're called city-states for a reason. Obviously my comment was about American cities.
- zachthewf 4y agoI think of it more of an individual rights issue. If I own land, I ought to be able to build whatever I want on it within reason.
- jspaetzel 4y agoThe only reason the state is stepping in is because the municipalities are overreaching on their authority over property owners. The state isn't taking local control away, it's releasing control to a more local level, the individual property owners.
- ausbah 4y agowould you say the same thing about say sundown towns or other municipalities that promote bigotry in their local laws?
- debacle 4y agoNo, because we have amendments to our Constitution that prevent this from taking place.
- kwere 4y agoin this specific case, cities are easily in a conflict of interest with zoning, at least politically as Nymbism was/is popular with established residents. This empasse goes against freedom of movement of people or property "rights" enshrined in the Constitution