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> US destroyed their pipeline Please don’t say this like it’s fact. We have no idea what happened.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
On one hand, who had the motive and the means to do it? On the other hand, you'd expect literally hundreds of investigrators, 24/7 news reporting, investigations, reports, etc. trying to find out who did it... unless they know who did it. If any other country had billions and billions of damage caused by someone else, the story would neve die down so fast as it did with nordstreams...
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Even the Russians didn't blame the US until Sy Hersh's shaky allegations; they accused the Brits, so it's not as obvious as you make it out to be. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav... Speaking of motive and means, Russia has both - motives might be things like "get Gazprom out of contract penalties" and "sow discord between NATO allies", means is fairly obvious. As for investigations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/22/russia-un-nord-stream-hersh-investigation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/22/... > Investigations by Sweden, Denmark and Germany are underway five months later. In a letter to the Security Council on Tuesday, those governments said they have established “that there has been extensive damage” to the pipelines “and that the damage was caused by powerful explosions due to sabotage.”
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Russia controlls the valves, and who cares about the contract penalties, when europe is seizing russian assets and blocking russia from eg. swift. With a cold winter, closed valves on the russian side, high heating bills and stalling german industry, there would be Putin on the other side saying "just remove some of the sanctions, stop sending weapons to ukraine, and we reopen the pipeline immediately", and the only one standing between the failing industry + cold people and cheap gas again would be a few politicians that can be replaced overnight.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > who cares about the contract penalties, when europe is seizing russian assets Gazprom cares; seized assets can be unfrozen later, and penalties would eat into what they get back. > just remove some of the sanctions, stop sending weapons to ukraine, and we reopen the pipeline immediately This line of thinking extends to a lot more than just the US. The UK would be in play; Ukraine would have motive. So would Finland and various others. Even Germany might want to get the pipeline out of the picture to avoid internal pressure to open it. And, again, "it couldn't possibly be us!" gives Russia some significant motive of their own if they think it can make Germany mad at the US.

On one hand, who had the motive and the means to do it? On the other hand, you'd expect literally hundreds of investigrators, 24/7 news reporting, investigations, reports, etc. trying to find out who did it... unless they know who did it. If any other country had billions and billions of damage caused by someone else, the story would neve die down so fast as it did with nordstreams...

ceejayoz 4y ago
Even the Russians didn't blame the US until Sy Hersh's shaky allegations; they accused the Brits, so it's not as obvious as you make it out to be. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav... Speaking of motive and means, Russia has both - motives might be things like "get Gazprom out of contract penalties" and "sow discord between NATO allies", means is fairly obvious. As for investigations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/22/russia-un-nord-stream-hersh-investigation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/02/22/... > Investigations by Sweden, Denmark and Germany are underway five months later. In a letter to the Security Council on Tuesday, those governments said they have established “that there has been extensive damage” to the pipelines “and that the damage was caused by powerful explosions due to sabotage.”
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Russia controlls the valves, and who cares about the contract penalties, when europe is seizing russian assets and blocking russia from eg. swift. With a cold winter, closed valves on the russian side, high heating bills and stalling german industry, there would be Putin on the other side saying "just remove some of the sanctions, stop sending weapons to ukraine, and we reopen the pipeline immediately", and the only one standing between the failing industry + cold people and cheap gas again would be a few politicians that can be replaced overnight.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > who cares about the contract penalties, when europe is seizing russian assets Gazprom cares; seized assets can be unfrozen later, and penalties would eat into what they get back. > just remove some of the sanctions, stop sending weapons to ukraine, and we reopen the pipeline immediately This line of thinking extends to a lot more than just the US. The UK would be in play; Ukraine would have motive. So would Finland and various others. Even Germany might want to get the pipeline out of the picture to avoid internal pressure to open it. And, again, "it couldn't possibly be us!" gives Russia some significant motive of their own if they think it can make Germany mad at the US.