3 ms·

I wouldn't specifically ask for friends and family of course. The moral of the story is to try to collect as many perspectives as you can on the candidate.

by jpg 18y ago

tptacek 18y ago
So, without commenting on the "ethics" of this --- I don't care that much --- it's worth it for readers to consider the practical implications of your approach. (1) Most interviewers won't ask for a 10 hour sample project. (2) Most interviewers won't ask for 10 references. (3) Good serverside web dev talent, even in this economy, is not in surplus. (4) There are extremely talented developers who are just going to say "no" to these weird requests. Your loss. I don't mean "unprofessional" as in, "you'll get kicked out of the guild". I mean, "this will make you look bad". It's as much an interviewer's job to sell their company as it is to qualify a candidate. Perhaps if you're getting a stream of people that's so bad you feel like you need to talk to their Mom and get them to work on spec for you, your real problem is that you just have a really crappy hiring pipeline.
- jonny_noog 18y ago
  I agree. I think it's great that these guys want to make sure that they get good talent, but yeah, I'd have to really want to work at a place before I'd put in the time to complete a 10 hour project and provide 10 - 15 referees plus whatever else is also involved. Maybe these guys are awesome to work for and stuff, I'm not really meaning to comment on this. But from personal experience, I very much agree that it is also the interviewers responsibility to sell their company. I've been in the fortunate position for some years now that I haven't needed a job. When I move, it's from the position of already being employed. Near the end of a job interview there will usually be the point where the interviewers will ask if I have any questions for them. My stock questions always include: a) What do you like about working here? b) What do you not like about working here? I love observing their reaction/response to question b) particularly. :) And I feel asking these kinds of questions sends a clear message to the interviewers that I am not desperate for the job, which puts me in a better bargaining position when it comes time to talk salary etc. Of course, this tactic only works when you really aren't desperate.
azanar 18y ago
But asking for more references will not guarantee more perspectives; it is simply guarantees more data, possibly repeated data. It is quite possible that the 10-15 references you ask will say within delta of the same thing about the candidate. You get reinforcement, but that doesn't seem quite useful enough to justify all the added calls.

I wouldn't specifically ask for friends and family of course. The moral of the story is to try to collect as many perspectives as you can on the candidate.

by jpg 18y ago

I wouldn't specifically ask for friends and family of course. The moral of the story is to try to collect as many perspectives as you can on the candidate.

tptacek 18y ago

So, without commenting on the "ethics" of this --- I don't care that much --- it's worth it for readers to consider the practical implications of your approach. (1) Most interviewers won't ask for a 10 hour sample project. (2) Most interviewers won't ask for 10 references. (3) Good serverside web dev talent, even in this economy, is not in surplus. (4) There are extremely talented developers who are just going to say "no" to these weird requests. Your loss. I don't mean "unprofessional" as in, "you'll get kicked out of the guild". I mean, "this will make you look bad". It's as much an interviewer's job to sell their company as it is to qualify a candidate. Perhaps if you're getting a stream of people that's so bad you feel like you need to talk to their Mom and get them to work on spec for you, your real problem is that you just have a really crappy hiring pipeline.

jonny_noog 18y ago
I agree. I think it's great that these guys want to make sure that they get good talent, but yeah, I'd have to really want to work at a place before I'd put in the time to complete a 10 hour project and provide 10 - 15 referees plus whatever else is also involved. Maybe these guys are awesome to work for and stuff, I'm not really meaning to comment on this. But from personal experience, I very much agree that it is also the interviewers responsibility to sell their company. I've been in the fortunate position for some years now that I haven't needed a job. When I move, it's from the position of already being employed. Near the end of a job interview there will usually be the point where the interviewers will ask if I have any questions for them. My stock questions always include: a) What do you like about working here? b) What do you not like about working here? I love observing their reaction/response to question b) particularly. :) And I feel asking these kinds of questions sends a clear message to the interviewers that I am not desperate for the job, which puts me in a better bargaining position when it comes time to talk salary etc. Of course, this tactic only works when you really aren't desperate.

azanar 18y ago

But asking for more references will not guarantee more perspectives; it is simply guarantees more data, possibly repeated data. It is quite possible that the 10-15 references you ask will say within delta of the same thing about the candidate. You get reinforcement, but that doesn't seem quite useful enough to justify all the added calls.