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Privacy policy: > We will not use or share your information with anyone except as described in this Privacy Policy. ... > We want to inform our Service users

Privacy policy: > We will not use or share your information with anyone except as described in this Privacy Policy. ... > We want to inform our Service users that these third parties have access to your Personal Information. The reason is to perform the tasks assigned to them on our behalf. However, they are obligated not to disclose or use the information for any other purpose. Arreeee they? So let me get this straight, you want to take my Super Important Private Data, like, you know, my entire corporate slack history. You'll feed it some arbitrary third party(s) (eg. OpenAI, who's privacy policy is flat out 'we'll use that as training data'), and they are... > obligated not to disclose or use the information for any other purpose. Other than what exactly? Provide some nebulous service to you? Like... training a model on it, or storing it and using it for training other models later, or..? haha... there is: No. Way. That is happening.

kashnote 4y ago
Probably gonna get downvoted for this but people on HN take the Privacy Policy of brand new websites way too seriously. This is probably some template they downloaded from the web, not some sly document they had their nefarious lawyers put together.
- ChatGTP 4y ago
  On the other hand, our company has recently mandated that all the software we use needs to have it's license checked over by a lawyer because we've found some fairly nefarious things in some of the software licenses we're using. Don't want to reveal where I work but let's say there's plenty of people working there who understand software licensing already, and some of the things were still missed until under a microscope. So maybe it pays to be skeptical / cautious?
  - tchock23 4y ago
    As a SaaS vendor I’ve had an uptick in one off requests from legal teams to make changes to our terms. So far, nothing deal breaking (largely because there isn’t anything nefarious in our terms), but I wonder if this will be a trend moving forward.
    - Vasyl_R 4y ago
      thanks for your comment! Are the data privacy concerns the main SaaS challenge from your POV ?
      - tchock23 4y ago
        No, so far it has been about limiting their liability in the event of something bad happening on the platform.
- naillo 4y ago
  Every app using GPT will go through OpenAIs API and all that data is stored and used for training future models. No amount of good will or non nefarious intentions from IngestAI side makes any difference.
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    thanks for your comment and support. That's what I'm trying basically to say in every third comment here. Generally, data privacy is a buzz topic since some time and with OpenAI it became even more viral.. It's not about IngestAI or any other SaaS, it's much wider topic and totally agree (thanks!).
    - naillo 4y ago
      To be clear I'm saying that you claiming that data won't leak into 3rd parties by storing it in aws is deceptive. There's no way you can protect the user of your product from having their data being soaked up by openai as long as you use their service instead of an open source LLM.
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  thank you so much for your support! Hope there're more people that think like you and are a bit 'empathic' about new services.. We improve with every single client, with every single request, and issue we face. So yes- Data Privacy is something very important but it's not only about IngestAI, I believe. Most of the SaaS solutions use API and are on AWS.. So, again, it's a wide topic, a buzz topic now.. Thanks again)
- krisoft 4y ago
  > This is probably some template they downloaded from the web But that's worse. Don't you see how that is worse? They want to have access to all the knowledge of the company and they can't even articulate what will and won't they do with it? > people on HN take the Privacy Policy of brand new websites way too seriously. People should take Privacy Policies of every website they work with more seriously.
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    We will work to fix this
- Avshalom 4y ago
  This is probably the output of asking an LLM to generate a privacy policy.
alnorth 4y ago
So if my competitor is using IngestAI and OpenAI use their data to train ChatGPT, could I literally just ask ChatGPT to tell me some secrets from my competitor's internal communication?
- literalAardvark 4y ago
  2023 is going to be very exciting times for security engineers. It won't have the data, but it might have enough of an understanding of the data to leak important information.
  - osigurdson 4y ago
    Does this problem disappear when using the Azure version of the service? If not, this is a pretty obvious market need: LLM + privacy.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      Most AI companies won't want to offer that. They want to know if someone is using their service to instigate the next mass shooting or ethic genocide.
      - Vasyl_R 4y ago
        a good point. And what about companies that have on-premise storage?
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    yes, with OpenAI and also our type of apps security engineers have to move also move next level. And companies have to understand that it's context-aware only based on the knowledge-base you upload. It can not go and grab some data on your PC just because some one would ask it in chat)) BTW, Thanks for your comments! Appreciate it a lot.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    While the model clearly can't retain all data, ChatGPT can regurgitate a lot of stuff verbatim. Prompt: > Recite the first two paragraphs of Neuromancer. Response: > Certainly! Here are the first two paragraphs of "Neuromancer" by William Gibson: > "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel. > 'It's not like I'm using,' Case heard someone say, as he shouldered his way through the crowd around the door of the Chat. 'It's like my body's developed this massive drug deficiency.' It was a Sprawl voice and a Sprawl joke. The Chatsubo was a bar for professional expatriates; you could drink there for a week and never hear two words in Japanese." (I have not checked how far you can get it to continue) So perhaps it'll be a question of whether enough of your employees are feeding it copies of your data for it to retain it...
infecto 4y ago
Don't fully disagree but the reason I would care less in this case is I assume most/all of what you would be feeding it is non-sensitive documentation.
- ChatGTP 4y ago
  I don't think that matters? Sensitive could be just discussing designs, outages, hiring, interview feedback? There's a lot of stuff in the average Slack account people don't want on the internet, let alone in a LLM which will potential expose it to the entire world? Maybe companies like Slack will release integrations natively so it won't matter so much.
  - infecto 4y ago
    Who is feeding interview feedback to a third party regardless if its IngestAI or not?
    - Vasyl_R 4y ago
      Data privacy is a buzz topic! ;)) We can discuss days about that :))))
    - nosequel 4y ago
      If you send all of your slack communications to IngestAI, it would include possibly channels where you discuss interview feedback. That's what the parent poster is saying.
      - infecto 4y ago
        And I am saying that was never the intended purpose of this product from what I read. That was my whole point in my OP. I agree that there are unique issues with products like these but its not alone, at the end of the day you should not be feeding sensitive data to third party applications like this. Edit: This whole thread is goofy. It is the equivalent as saying what if you published your entire internal emails online.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
It seems like the companies who throw caution to the wind and use this will end up being more productive in the short term and win out over more cautious entities. Thus we will only end up with more companies who use these tools or holdouts caving to pressure from competition. This will cause big problems by the time post-nut clarity arrives. We are being dazzled by the tech and forgetting our principles again. We are being pulled down this path whether we want to or not. It also doesn't help that OpenAI is partnered with Microsoft. I would start with the mindset that all data given to OpenAI through any of these tools goes to Microsoft. Why would you give anything to a competitior?
- LeanderK 4y ago
  This is hard to take seriously with such a policy. I think this is just somebody playing around with the OpenAI API. I expect serious competitors to have a better policy that is actually usable for corporations, it might take a year but I see no way this gets adopted in a broader way. So far OpenAI has the monopoly, but there will be competitors if you will give them some time.
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    sure, BERT is to come very soon and I think it will bring even wider adoption of AI. And yes, Data Privacy will become even more buzzed topic. Next few years will be of security engineers and of data privacy lawyers, don't you think?
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  thanks for your comment. If believe if Data Privacy is almost the only topic discussed here, that's good. Means, people like the idea but at the same time people are concerned about personal / sensitive data. And to be honest- I hope that would be our biggest challenge, as I believe it's a bit easier to get a good, solid Data Privacy policy compliant with all legal and moral requirements than to build a product. At least that's what I hope))
stevofolife 4y ago
Most startups are clueless and ignorant about data governance.
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  would you be able to advise a good startup or service that provides good governance of Data Privacy management for startups? We would like to learn more and get this point as good as possible.. But you're right in some degree- we're builders, and we need help of professionals with data governance.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    Ok so, you replied everyone on this sub-thread except the top-level comment. Why is that? Your first task to improve your privacy policy is to review whether you really, absolutely, for reals, can require OpenAI to follow this: "they are obligated not to disclose or use the information for any other purpose." Because, it looks like you can't, and OpenAI will absolutely use your customers' data for their own purposes, so you probably should remove this line from your privacy policy at minimum.
nextaccountic 4y ago
By using your data as training data, OpenAI might disclose your stuff to the world at large

kashnote 4y ago

Probably gonna get downvoted for this but people on HN take the Privacy Policy of brand new websites way too seriously. This is probably some template they downloaded from the web, not some sly document they had their nefarious lawyers put together.

ChatGTP 4y ago
On the other hand, our company has recently mandated that all the software we use needs to have it's license checked over by a lawyer because we've found some fairly nefarious things in some of the software licenses we're using. Don't want to reveal where I work but let's say there's plenty of people working there who understand software licensing already, and some of the things were still missed until under a microscope. So maybe it pays to be skeptical / cautious?
- tchock23 4y ago
  As a SaaS vendor I’ve had an uptick in one off requests from legal teams to make changes to our terms. So far, nothing deal breaking (largely because there isn’t anything nefarious in our terms), but I wonder if this will be a trend moving forward.
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    thanks for your comment! Are the data privacy concerns the main SaaS challenge from your POV ?
    - tchock23 4y ago
      No, so far it has been about limiting their liability in the event of something bad happening on the platform.
naillo 4y ago
Every app using GPT will go through OpenAIs API and all that data is stored and used for training future models. No amount of good will or non nefarious intentions from IngestAI side makes any difference.
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  thanks for your comment and support. That's what I'm trying basically to say in every third comment here. Generally, data privacy is a buzz topic since some time and with OpenAI it became even more viral.. It's not about IngestAI or any other SaaS, it's much wider topic and totally agree (thanks!).
  - naillo 4y ago
    To be clear I'm saying that you claiming that data won't leak into 3rd parties by storing it in aws is deceptive. There's no way you can protect the user of your product from having their data being soaked up by openai as long as you use their service instead of an open source LLM.
Vasyl_R 4y ago
thank you so much for your support! Hope there're more people that think like you and are a bit 'empathic' about new services.. We improve with every single client, with every single request, and issue we face. So yes- Data Privacy is something very important but it's not only about IngestAI, I believe. Most of the SaaS solutions use API and are on AWS.. So, again, it's a wide topic, a buzz topic now.. Thanks again)
krisoft 4y ago
> This is probably some template they downloaded from the web But that's worse. Don't you see how that is worse? They want to have access to all the knowledge of the company and they can't even articulate what will and won't they do with it? > people on HN take the Privacy Policy of brand new websites way too seriously. People should take Privacy Policies of every website they work with more seriously.
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  We will work to fix this
Avshalom 4y ago
This is probably the output of asking an LLM to generate a privacy policy.

alnorth 4y ago

So if my competitor is using IngestAI and OpenAI use their data to train ChatGPT, could I literally just ask ChatGPT to tell me some secrets from my competitor's internal communication?

literalAardvark 4y ago
2023 is going to be very exciting times for security engineers. It won't have the data, but it might have enough of an understanding of the data to leak important information.
- osigurdson 4y ago
  Does this problem disappear when using the Azure version of the service? If not, this is a pretty obvious market need: LLM + privacy.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    Most AI companies won't want to offer that. They want to know if someone is using their service to instigate the next mass shooting or ethic genocide.
    - Vasyl_R 4y ago
      a good point. And what about companies that have on-premise storage?
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  yes, with OpenAI and also our type of apps security engineers have to move also move next level. And companies have to understand that it's context-aware only based on the knowledge-base you upload. It can not go and grab some data on your PC just because some one would ask it in chat)) BTW, Thanks for your comments! Appreciate it a lot.
- vidarh 4y ago
  While the model clearly can't retain all data, ChatGPT can regurgitate a lot of stuff verbatim. Prompt: > Recite the first two paragraphs of Neuromancer. Response: > Certainly! Here are the first two paragraphs of "Neuromancer" by William Gibson: > "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel. > 'It's not like I'm using,' Case heard someone say, as he shouldered his way through the crowd around the door of the Chat. 'It's like my body's developed this massive drug deficiency.' It was a Sprawl voice and a Sprawl joke. The Chatsubo was a bar for professional expatriates; you could drink there for a week and never hear two words in Japanese." (I have not checked how far you can get it to continue) So perhaps it'll be a question of whether enough of your employees are feeding it copies of your data for it to retain it...

infecto 4y ago

Don't fully disagree but the reason I would care less in this case is I assume most/all of what you would be feeding it is non-sensitive documentation.

ChatGTP 4y ago
I don't think that matters? Sensitive could be just discussing designs, outages, hiring, interview feedback? There's a lot of stuff in the average Slack account people don't want on the internet, let alone in a LLM which will potential expose it to the entire world? Maybe companies like Slack will release integrations natively so it won't matter so much.
- infecto 4y ago
  Who is feeding interview feedback to a third party regardless if its IngestAI or not?
  - Vasyl_R 4y ago
    Data privacy is a buzz topic! ;)) We can discuss days about that :))))
  - nosequel 4y ago
    If you send all of your slack communications to IngestAI, it would include possibly channels where you discuss interview feedback. That's what the parent poster is saying.
    - infecto 4y ago
      And I am saying that was never the intended purpose of this product from what I read. That was my whole point in my OP. I agree that there are unique issues with products like these but its not alone, at the end of the day you should not be feeding sensitive data to third party applications like this. Edit: This whole thread is goofy. It is the equivalent as saying what if you published your entire internal emails online.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

It seems like the companies who throw caution to the wind and use this will end up being more productive in the short term and win out over more cautious entities. Thus we will only end up with more companies who use these tools or holdouts caving to pressure from competition. This will cause big problems by the time post-nut clarity arrives. We are being dazzled by the tech and forgetting our principles again. We are being pulled down this path whether we want to or not. It also doesn't help that OpenAI is partnered with Microsoft. I would start with the mindset that all data given to OpenAI through any of these tools goes to Microsoft. Why would you give anything to a competitior?

LeanderK 4y ago
This is hard to take seriously with such a policy. I think this is just somebody playing around with the OpenAI API. I expect serious competitors to have a better policy that is actually usable for corporations, it might take a year but I see no way this gets adopted in a broader way. So far OpenAI has the monopoly, but there will be competitors if you will give them some time.
- Vasyl_R 4y ago
  sure, BERT is to come very soon and I think it will bring even wider adoption of AI. And yes, Data Privacy will become even more buzzed topic. Next few years will be of security engineers and of data privacy lawyers, don't you think?
Vasyl_R 4y ago
thanks for your comment. If believe if Data Privacy is almost the only topic discussed here, that's good. Means, people like the idea but at the same time people are concerned about personal / sensitive data. And to be honest- I hope that would be our biggest challenge, as I believe it's a bit easier to get a good, solid Data Privacy policy compliant with all legal and moral requirements than to build a product. At least that's what I hope))

stevofolife 4y ago

Most startups are clueless and ignorant about data governance.

Vasyl_R 4y ago
would you be able to advise a good startup or service that provides good governance of Data Privacy management for startups? We would like to learn more and get this point as good as possible.. But you're right in some degree- we're builders, and we need help of professionals with data governance.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  Ok so, you replied everyone on this sub-thread except the top-level comment. Why is that? Your first task to improve your privacy policy is to review whether you really, absolutely, for reals, can require OpenAI to follow this: "they are obligated not to disclose or use the information for any other purpose." Because, it looks like you can't, and OpenAI will absolutely use your customers' data for their own purposes, so you probably should remove this line from your privacy policy at minimum.

nextaccountic 4y ago

By using your data as training data, OpenAI might disclose your stuff to the world at large