6 ms·

Ubuntu Flavors Dropping Flatpak

14 points by logix 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago
Yay! When do they get rid of snaps?
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  Heh, they're removing flatpak from the default installation to encourage more Snap 'For the users', please. The maintenance cost is the same, default or no. It's being built and presumably tested if offered, this serves only to create friction Edit: before someone says it, yes Canonical can put what they want in their distribution Just don't try to convince me that taking away defaults improves my options. Be honest, you want to champion your thing. This is more a criticism of their willingness to rely on dark patterns.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    debs have always been fine with me.
    - salawat 4y ago
      debs are a nightmare compared to a SlackBuild. Long live the .txz!
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      Same here, generally -- as a user I don't really give a bother. As long as I can avoid building from source / hunting deps for the most part, I'm good. I'll do this for maybe 10% of what I need; beyond that it's untenable. If I were trying to publish my thing(s) I may care more, but probably not -- I just maintain several RPMs for other projects on Fedora/EL derivatives.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Yet more "snap is a dark pattern" kind of comment. Why is snap a "dark pattern"?
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      Dark pattern: a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things The 'interface' (tool availability) has been crafted such that users are likely to favor Snap over Flatpak... because Flatpak now takes a step that only serves to prop up Snap: installation of the runtime I don't want to overstate the significance of this -- it's about as dark as dawn-break. Canonical is still maintaining/offering it, and I can get behind supporting Their Thing. The worst thing about this is the messaging. If they had just done the thing and said nothing, I'd have nothing to complain about. It could be taken as curation -- the messaging aims to convince that fewer options = more better. edit: Some irony to this is we'd be closer to their idealized state of 'one way to install' had they instead chosen to adopt Flatpak over insist that Snap has to happen.
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        You haven't answered the question, though. > I don't want to overstate the significance of this -- it's about as dark as dawn-break. I don't see any significance in it. What exactly is the problem?
        bravetraveler 4y ago
        I feel like I have, they've dripped water on our face and called it rain. I don't have an issue in them preferring their solutions, I have an issue with them trying to convince us that it's for our benefit -- not theirs. XKCD standards summarizes my sentiment well: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png edit: Snap in itself isn't a dark pattern. I've explained why I feel like this change, and particularly the handling, is.
        Gordonjcp 4y ago
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Agreed. I think they're both awful, and so far have been successful in avoiding them completely. Ubuntu and I have never gotten along very well on a technical level, so I don't use it. Maybe that's working out for the best.
- danjoredd 4y ago
  Ubuntu tends to only support these kinds of things for a few years and then they drop it. I suspect that either later this year or sometime next year they will drop it. Could be wrong, but here's hoping.
greatgib 4y ago
Nice corporate bullshit article again, that have first thousands of worlds to tell you how they favor diversity... And this is why they will do something to ensure that you don't use anything else than their shitty snap!
toyg 4y ago
I still don't understand this obsession with snap. One of the reasons Ubuntu effectively lost the privileged spot they had won, among Linux distributions, is this obsession with rewriting backend systems instead of focusing on what brought them users in the first place: all-around polish and ease of use. These things end up generating flamewars and ill-will across users and advocates, and in most cases they simply die after some time. They should focus again on what really matters. But I'm told Shuttleworth's mind doesn't work like that.
- tssva 4y ago
  "They should focus again on what really matters." I'm pretty sure what really matters to them is making money which they weren't doing but increasing have been doing since shifting focus from what you and others here seem to think they should be focusing on.
  - toyg 4y ago
    They definitely didn't make money from Unity or Mir, which is what I was referring to. In fact, they started making money when they abandoned those silly dreams, including Ubuntu Phones, and focused again on their bread and butter: providing a Linux experience that is both familiar and polished. Snap is the last of their pointless flamewars, achieving nothing but a slowdown in adoption - the only metric that really differentiates them from the pack.

14 points by logix 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago

Yay! When do they get rid of snaps?

bravetraveler 4y ago
Heh, they're removing flatpak from the default installation to encourage more Snap 'For the users', please. The maintenance cost is the same, default or no. It's being built and presumably tested if offered, this serves only to create friction Edit: before someone says it, yes Canonical can put what they want in their distribution Just don't try to convince me that taking away defaults improves my options. Be honest, you want to champion your thing. This is more a criticism of their willingness to rely on dark patterns.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  debs have always been fine with me.
  - salawat 4y ago
    debs are a nightmare compared to a SlackBuild. Long live the .txz!
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    Same here, generally -- as a user I don't really give a bother. As long as I can avoid building from source / hunting deps for the most part, I'm good. I'll do this for maybe 10% of what I need; beyond that it's untenable. If I were trying to publish my thing(s) I may care more, but probably not -- I just maintain several RPMs for other projects on Fedora/EL derivatives.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Yet more "snap is a dark pattern" kind of comment. Why is snap a "dark pattern"?
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    Dark pattern: a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things The 'interface' (tool availability) has been crafted such that users are likely to favor Snap over Flatpak... because Flatpak now takes a step that only serves to prop up Snap: installation of the runtime I don't want to overstate the significance of this -- it's about as dark as dawn-break. Canonical is still maintaining/offering it, and I can get behind supporting Their Thing. The worst thing about this is the messaging. If they had just done the thing and said nothing, I'd have nothing to complain about. It could be taken as curation -- the messaging aims to convince that fewer options = more better. edit: Some irony to this is we'd be closer to their idealized state of 'one way to install' had they instead chosen to adopt Flatpak over insist that Snap has to happen.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      You haven't answered the question, though. > I don't want to overstate the significance of this -- it's about as dark as dawn-break. I don't see any significance in it. What exactly is the problem?
      - bravetraveler 4y ago
        I feel like I have, they've dripped water on our face and called it rain. I don't have an issue in them preferring their solutions, I have an issue with them trying to convince us that it's for our benefit -- not theirs. XKCD standards summarizes my sentiment well: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png edit: Snap in itself isn't a dark pattern. I've explained why I feel like this change, and particularly the handling, is.
        Gordonjcp 4y ago
JohnFen 4y ago
Agreed. I think they're both awful, and so far have been successful in avoiding them completely. Ubuntu and I have never gotten along very well on a technical level, so I don't use it. Maybe that's working out for the best.
danjoredd 4y ago
Ubuntu tends to only support these kinds of things for a few years and then they drop it. I suspect that either later this year or sometime next year they will drop it. Could be wrong, but here's hoping.

greatgib 4y ago

Nice corporate bullshit article again, that have first thousands of worlds to tell you how they favor diversity... And this is why they will do something to ensure that you don't use anything else than their shitty snap!

toyg 4y ago

I still don't understand this obsession with snap. One of the reasons Ubuntu effectively lost the privileged spot they had won, among Linux distributions, is this obsession with rewriting backend systems instead of focusing on what brought them users in the first place: all-around polish and ease of use. These things end up generating flamewars and ill-will across users and advocates, and in most cases they simply die after some time. They should focus again on what really matters. But I'm told Shuttleworth's mind doesn't work like that.

tssva 4y ago
"They should focus again on what really matters." I'm pretty sure what really matters to them is making money which they weren't doing but increasing have been doing since shifting focus from what you and others here seem to think they should be focusing on.
- toyg 4y ago
  They definitely didn't make money from Unity or Mir, which is what I was referring to. In fact, they started making money when they abandoned those silly dreams, including Ubuntu Phones, and focused again on their bread and butter: providing a Linux experience that is both familiar and polished. Snap is the last of their pointless flamewars, achieving nothing but a slowdown in adoption - the only metric that really differentiates them from the pack.