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> Did they give you hard numbers? Is that 1 poppy seed? 1 teaspoon of poppy seed? 1 pound of poppy seed? As I clearly explained, this is due to contamination,

> Did they give you hard numbers? Is that 1 poppy seed? 1 teaspoon of poppy seed? 1 pound of poppy seed? As I clearly explained, this is due to contamination, possibly due to poor washing. The quantity needed is therefore going to depend on the level of contamination. > The problem is that the tests are oversensitive. The DoD has been operating on a 2000ng/mL cutoff, which is high, so... no. Also, the food supply is contaminated with opiates and your first thought is that the tests are too sensitive?

gus_massa 4y ago
What is the dangerous dose of raw unwashed poppy seed? Can just one of them kill you? > Also, the food supply is contaminated with opiates and your first thought is that the tests are too sensitive? Yes, exactly. The dose makes the poison. For example in the north of Argentina (were my parents come from), it's common to chew coca leaves [1]. They have cocaine! (There is also coca tea.) It's part of the local traditions and even part of the old religions (that are now somewhat mixed with the chistian religions). They have cocaine! But the dose is so low that you can get as high as drinking a cup of coffee. That has caffeine! Do you want to ban worldwide coca chewing, coffee, tea, ... Note that it's not equivalent to taking pure cocaine that is extracted proceeding a very huge amount of coca leaves. Like it's not equivalent a cup of coffee to pure caffeine. Anyway, national and international regulation sometimes ignore this local details and doses, and you may get in trouble. [1] Spanish: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico The English article is too short. Autotranslation: https://es-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Acullico?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://es-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Acullico?_x_t...
- torstenvl 4y ago
  You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the issue and I don't know how to explain it more clearly than I have. It does not matter how many poppy seeds there are. It matters how much poppy latex remains on them. The poppy seed itself contains no opiates. The quantitative measure you're looking for is widely variable, because—again—it's not a matter of how many poppy seeds, but the level of contamination at the source. Five years ago it may have been practically impossible. Now, one poppy seed muffin in one experiment with one participant led to a codeine urinalysis result of 1300ng/mL. Others were usually lower, but without wider experimentation it's hard to say what the maximum value is or what the true error bars are. The tests are not the issue.
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    From one of the fists results on Google: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513924/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513924/ It looks like 1kg (2 pounds) of [unwashed?] poppy seeds are addictive but not lethal. I'm not sure how to extrapolate that to the minimal active dose. How many poppy seeds does bread/desert have? 5%? 10%? You must eat like 10Kg (20 pounds). A normal person eats like 1kg of food per day. Also a reputable bakery will use washed-but-not-perfectly-washed poppy seeds instead of unwashed poppy seeds, so you should multiply the amount of bread x10 or x100.
    - torstenvl 4y ago
      > It looks like 1kg (2 pounds) of [unwashed?] poppy seeds are addictive but not lethal. No, that isn't what the cited reference says. Poppy seeds are neither addictive nor lethal. > How many poppy seeds does bread/desert have? 5%? 10%? You must eat like 10Kg (20 pounds). A normal person eats like 1kg of food per day. Also a reputable bakery will use wash No. See above. > Also a reputable bakery will use washed-but-not-perfectly-washed poppy seeds instead of unwashed poppy seeds False. The contamination with poppy latex is not immediately apparent and not always labeled. The discovery of significant contamination—consistent with unwashed poppy seeds, in widely available commercial baked goods—is why we issued the Brady notice.

gus_massa 4y ago

What is the dangerous dose of raw unwashed poppy seed? Can just one of them kill you? > Also, the food supply is contaminated with opiates and your first thought is that the tests are too sensitive? Yes, exactly. The dose makes the poison. For example in the north of Argentina (were my parents come from), it's common to chew coca leaves [1]. They have cocaine! (There is also coca tea.) It's part of the local traditions and even part of the old religions (that are now somewhat mixed with the chistian religions). They have cocaine! But the dose is so low that you can get as high as drinking a cup of coffee. That has caffeine! Do you want to ban worldwide coca chewing, coffee, tea, ... Note that it's not equivalent to taking pure cocaine that is extracted proceeding a very huge amount of coca leaves. Like it's not equivalent a cup of coffee to pure caffeine. Anyway, national and international regulation sometimes ignore this local details and doses, and you may get in trouble. [1] Spanish: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico The English article is too short. Autotranslation: https://es-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Acullico?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es-419&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://es-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Acullico?_x_t...

torstenvl 4y ago
You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the issue and I don't know how to explain it more clearly than I have. It does not matter how many poppy seeds there are. It matters how much poppy latex remains on them. The poppy seed itself contains no opiates. The quantitative measure you're looking for is widely variable, because—again—it's not a matter of how many poppy seeds, but the level of contamination at the source. Five years ago it may have been practically impossible. Now, one poppy seed muffin in one experiment with one participant led to a codeine urinalysis result of 1300ng/mL. Others were usually lower, but without wider experimentation it's hard to say what the maximum value is or what the true error bars are. The tests are not the issue.
- gus_massa 4y ago
  From one of the fists results on Google: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513924/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6513924/ It looks like 1kg (2 pounds) of [unwashed?] poppy seeds are addictive but not lethal. I'm not sure how to extrapolate that to the minimal active dose. How many poppy seeds does bread/desert have? 5%? 10%? You must eat like 10Kg (20 pounds). A normal person eats like 1kg of food per day. Also a reputable bakery will use washed-but-not-perfectly-washed poppy seeds instead of unwashed poppy seeds, so you should multiply the amount of bread x10 or x100.
  - torstenvl 4y ago
    > It looks like 1kg (2 pounds) of [unwashed?] poppy seeds are addictive but not lethal. No, that isn't what the cited reference says. Poppy seeds are neither addictive nor lethal. > How many poppy seeds does bread/desert have? 5%? 10%? You must eat like 10Kg (20 pounds). A normal person eats like 1kg of food per day. Also a reputable bakery will use wash No. See above. > Also a reputable bakery will use washed-but-not-perfectly-washed poppy seeds instead of unwashed poppy seeds False. The contamination with poppy latex is not immediately apparent and not always labeled. The discovery of significant contamination—consistent with unwashed poppy seeds, in widely available commercial baked goods—is why we issued the Brady notice.