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We can disagree on the user experience-based motivation. Given the lack of any kind of public data on how those decisions are made, I can't blame you for thinki

by cjk 4y ago

We can disagree on the user experience-based motivation. Given the lack of any kind of public data on how those decisions are made, I can't blame you for thinking that way. I do agree that developer experience is important, and that Apple should take developer experience more seriously than it does, and that applies across every org in the company. Case in point: the infuriatingly-opaque and mercurial nature of the App Store review process. The problem is that, percentage-wise, developers are a minuscule portion of Apple's overall userbase. That makes the justification for fixing concerns that are (perceived as) unique to developers difficult when the culture has traditionally leaned toward prioritizing issues with a more obvious impact on the majority of users. I'm not saying this is correct or desirable, just the way things have worked historically. Given all of that, I think “a browser full of bugs” is relative. I witnessed many instances of bugs being experienced by large numbers of users being fixed extremely quickly. It's always been a function of (obvious, measurable) impact. If a significant percentage of web apps were crashing 60 times a day, those bugs would have been fixed extraordinarily quickly.

mtomweb 4y ago
These same issues would get fixed in Firefox and Chrome. Safari was the outlier. We couldn't ask our users to use another competitive browser, since they'd been banned (and we most certainly would have put up banners). The 60 times a day crash (more specifically the app just froze), took 1 to 2 months to fix and it affected every web app. Users would have to force kill the app and restart. I'd recommend reading through all the comments to get a really good idea on how severe all of the bugs were: https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#ios-safari-is-buggy https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#ios-saf... https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#safari-has-been-buggy-for-a-long-time https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#safari-... In 2021, after 10 years of these issues, no progress on important web app features (like push/install prompts), no response from Apple or the Safari/Webkit team, we decided the only method by which Apple would fund Safari properly was to goto governments and regulators to reverse their ban on third party browsers. Not long after we petitioned regulators Apple started working on push notifications, 12 years after they came out for native.
pier25 4y ago
And what about Webkit for iOS blatantly diverging from the standard? Eg: Not allowing to set the size of an iframe unless using some hack. https://github.com/PierBover/ios-iframe-fix https://github.com/PierBover/ios-iframe-fix This was not a bug. It was a deliberate decision.
- jensimmons 4y ago
  This information is out of date. https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/242814/webkit https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/242814/webkit

by cjk 4y ago

mtomweb 4y ago

These same issues would get fixed in Firefox and Chrome. Safari was the outlier. We couldn't ask our users to use another competitive browser, since they'd been banned (and we most certainly would have put up banners). The 60 times a day crash (more specifically the app just froze), took 1 to 2 months to fix and it affected every web app. Users would have to force kill the app and restart. I'd recommend reading through all the comments to get a really good idea on how severe all of the bugs were: https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#ios-safari-is-buggy https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#ios-saf... https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#safari-has-been-buggy-for-a-long-time https://open-web-advocacy.org/walled-gardens-report/#safari-... In 2021, after 10 years of these issues, no progress on important web app features (like push/install prompts), no response from Apple or the Safari/Webkit team, we decided the only method by which Apple would fund Safari properly was to goto governments and regulators to reverse their ban on third party browsers. Not long after we petitioned regulators Apple started working on push notifications, 12 years after they came out for native.

pier25 4y ago

And what about Webkit for iOS blatantly diverging from the standard? Eg: Not allowing to set the size of an iframe unless using some hack. https://github.com/PierBover/ios-iframe-fix https://github.com/PierBover/ios-iframe-fix This was not a bug. It was a deliberate decision.

jensimmons 4y ago
This information is out of date. https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/242814/webkit https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/242814/webkit