5 ms·

I have the feeling that behind this kind of experiment there's a wish to hold a 'moralistic' take on 'where is the world going! people today are too busy to not

I have the feeling that behind this kind of experiment there's a wish to hold a 'moralistic' take on 'where is the world going! people today are too busy to notice art!' etc. First of all, it relies on the incorrect assumption that 'the same people' would pay a lot of money to see him play at a concert hall. I'm not sure this is right. About one in 1000 people did stop and recognize him, and I feel this fraction is not too different from the actual percentage of people who have heard of him and would pay to see him, so this isn't surprising. He is famous, but not that famous. Second, there is a fundamental misunderstanding on what it means to go to a concert. The whole point of the concert is to take time specifically to listen to music in an attentive and dedicated way. It's not like an improved version of listening to music in my headphones during my commute, it's a wholly different experience with a different purpose. Moreover, it's a collective ritual. We don't go to the concert hall just because of the music and because of Joshua Bell, we also go because it's nice to treat yourself to an evening out, to dress nicely, and to enjoy the fancy atmosphere of the theatre with its, say, baroque frescoes or modern architectural design. Joshua Bell in that context is literally not the same as Joshua Bell in a subway, otherwise why would he dress nicely for the concert? And you know what, there is nothing wrong with that. Theatre and music have always been this way.

sublinear 4y ago
> Theatre and music have always been this way. Everything has always been this way
rdiddly 4y ago
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy too. Any transportation facility during rush hour would be literally the best place and time to look for people too busy for (whatever your bullshit is unless it's a ride to work). It's even called "rush hour," in case you thought it was "hey everybody who came out in public, now's your chance to interact with me hour."
jfengel 4y ago
Agreed. In the lousy acoustics of a subway, there's going to be no difference between Joshua Bell and any other reasonably talented busker. Bell brings a specific kind of skill, a highly refined sound and sensibility that is unique to him, but not going to be readily apparent to a casual listener. If anything, the regular buskers might put on a better performance. That's their job. They'll select the right music for the venue and crowd. Performing is a show, not just playing the instrument, and they'll put on the show that's appropriate there and then. It would be a bit like watching Michael Jordan shooting free-throws in the neighborhood court. I'm sure he'd do it better than the others... but not anything you'd pay attention to. Lots of people can put balls in the basket. As a performer myself, it's always a little irritating watching people drift to the famous ones just because they're famous -- people who would otherwise attract little attention if their fame weren't called out. It's not that they're not talented; of course they are. It's just that there are many other equally talented people who never got attention. Movies feature the same A-list stars over and over, even though they could have many equally talented actors for a thousandth the price. But people wouldn't go... because they're not A-list stars. That's no shade on Bell, though I do think that the humorist who set up the stunt missed the point. I admire Bell for going out to entertain.
- the_cat_kittles 4y ago
  this is a really good comment, and i agree with it. but i do think there is a seperate point that the experiment reinforces, which is that the perception of musical skill is highly contingent on non musical things for most people. as a musician, its sometimes frustrating because i dont want to focus on the "dumb stuff" (things that arent about rhythm, tone, melody, harmony etc), but sometimes feel like i need to. i'm not saying its wrong to meet the audience where there at, but its annoying when people overestimate their perception
tshaddox 4y ago
I actually quite like classical music, but there are times I really don’t want to listen to a solo violin performance. On the way to the subway would almost certainly be one those times. Another such time is tonight, when I immediately had to mute my phone sound when that video started.
kilgnad 4y ago
I took it as just an illustration of human snobbery for the sake of snobbery. There are similar experiments. I believe Penn and Teller did an experiment on bottled water to see if anyone at a fancy restaurant could taste how much better artisanal bottled water was. All the customers commented on how much more refreshing the water was when in actuality it was all hose water filled in from the back. There was this other experiment, I can't recall from where, where they tested if audiophiles could here the difference between an MP3 and regular uncompressed sound. None of them could tell the difference even though they all claimed before hand that they could. >Moreover, it's a collective ritual. We don't go to the concert hall just because of the music and because of Joshua Bell, we also go because it's nice to treat yourself to an evening out, to dress nicely, and to enjoy the fancy atmosphere of the theatre with its, say, baroque frescoes or modern architectural design. Joshua Bell in that context is literally not the same as Joshua Bell in a subway, otherwise why would he dress nicely for the concert? And you know what, there is nothing wrong with that. Theatre and music have always been this way. You illustrate my point perfectly and you partially admit my point. You say: It's not JUST about the music which makes sense. But I say, it's more than that. It's actually NOT about the music AT ALL, because the music is much more clear when listened to digitally in a private space with no distractions. People can likely get that for free with a pair of good headphones. When people buy a concert ticket they pay for the "night out" not the music. Just replace the music with some other snobbish artsy activity and they'd still go because it's never really about the activity itself. I shouldn't just focus on rich people snobbery it happens with any type of concert or music festival or whatever. It's never about the music in actuality it's only about the music in appearance. Everyone lies to themselves about why they go.
- quacked 4y ago
  You are obviously not a classical musician--live music in a concert hall is a completely different experience than listening to high-quality audio by yourself. I'd bet a thousand dollars that I can tell the difference between listening to music in a concert hall vs. listening out of high-quality speakers.
  - kilgnad 4y ago
lostlogin 4y ago
Doing it at 8am on a Friday morning is interesting. Who has spare time then?
- saghm 4y ago
  OT, but this reminds me: several years ago on my way to my office after getting off the subway in Times Square someone approached me looking like they had a question. I don't remember exactly why I stopped to talk to them (normally I would keep my earbuds on and just ignore people who looked like they were trying to solicit something since it's generally pretty obvious when someone is a tourist and actually needs help compared to having some other agenda), but I was absolutely thrown by them asking me "What state name ends in the letter K?" I assumed this was some sort of experiment and said "I'm really sorry, I'm on my way to work and don't have time for something like this". Before I could walk away, they asked me "What state are you from?", and I interpreted the question as being about where I grew up and not where I currently lived and said "Massachusetts". They looked at me strangely and said "the answer is New York, we're in New York right now". I told them I still had to get to work and said goodbye and rushed out due to embarrassment, and I still have no idea what their purpose for asking that was.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Money or Jesus. I just don’t know how which or how.
  - humanrebar 4y ago
    They were soliciting for donations for some nonprofit and that was their ice breaker.
whiddershins 4y ago
Not to mention it was morning rush hour. People need to get to work on time.

sublinear 4y ago

> Theatre and music have always been this way. Everything has always been this way

rdiddly 4y ago

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy too. Any transportation facility during rush hour would be literally the best place and time to look for people too busy for (whatever your bullshit is unless it's a ride to work). It's even called "rush hour," in case you thought it was "hey everybody who came out in public, now's your chance to interact with me hour."

jfengel 4y ago

Agreed. In the lousy acoustics of a subway, there's going to be no difference between Joshua Bell and any other reasonably talented busker. Bell brings a specific kind of skill, a highly refined sound and sensibility that is unique to him, but not going to be readily apparent to a casual listener. If anything, the regular buskers might put on a better performance. That's their job. They'll select the right music for the venue and crowd. Performing is a show, not just playing the instrument, and they'll put on the show that's appropriate there and then. It would be a bit like watching Michael Jordan shooting free-throws in the neighborhood court. I'm sure he'd do it better than the others... but not anything you'd pay attention to. Lots of people can put balls in the basket. As a performer myself, it's always a little irritating watching people drift to the famous ones just because they're famous -- people who would otherwise attract little attention if their fame weren't called out. It's not that they're not talented; of course they are. It's just that there are many other equally talented people who never got attention. Movies feature the same A-list stars over and over, even though they could have many equally talented actors for a thousandth the price. But people wouldn't go... because they're not A-list stars. That's no shade on Bell, though I do think that the humorist who set up the stunt missed the point. I admire Bell for going out to entertain.

the_cat_kittles 4y ago
this is a really good comment, and i agree with it. but i do think there is a seperate point that the experiment reinforces, which is that the perception of musical skill is highly contingent on non musical things for most people. as a musician, its sometimes frustrating because i dont want to focus on the "dumb stuff" (things that arent about rhythm, tone, melody, harmony etc), but sometimes feel like i need to. i'm not saying its wrong to meet the audience where there at, but its annoying when people overestimate their perception

tshaddox 4y ago

I actually quite like classical music, but there are times I really don’t want to listen to a solo violin performance. On the way to the subway would almost certainly be one those times. Another such time is tonight, when I immediately had to mute my phone sound when that video started.

kilgnad 4y ago

I took it as just an illustration of human snobbery for the sake of snobbery. There are similar experiments. I believe Penn and Teller did an experiment on bottled water to see if anyone at a fancy restaurant could taste how much better artisanal bottled water was. All the customers commented on how much more refreshing the water was when in actuality it was all hose water filled in from the back. There was this other experiment, I can't recall from where, where they tested if audiophiles could here the difference between an MP3 and regular uncompressed sound. None of them could tell the difference even though they all claimed before hand that they could. >Moreover, it's a collective ritual. We don't go to the concert hall just because of the music and because of Joshua Bell, we also go because it's nice to treat yourself to an evening out, to dress nicely, and to enjoy the fancy atmosphere of the theatre with its, say, baroque frescoes or modern architectural design. Joshua Bell in that context is literally not the same as Joshua Bell in a subway, otherwise why would he dress nicely for the concert? And you know what, there is nothing wrong with that. Theatre and music have always been this way. You illustrate my point perfectly and you partially admit my point. You say: It's not JUST about the music which makes sense. But I say, it's more than that. It's actually NOT about the music AT ALL, because the music is much more clear when listened to digitally in a private space with no distractions. People can likely get that for free with a pair of good headphones. When people buy a concert ticket they pay for the "night out" not the music. Just replace the music with some other snobbish artsy activity and they'd still go because it's never really about the activity itself. I shouldn't just focus on rich people snobbery it happens with any type of concert or music festival or whatever. It's never about the music in actuality it's only about the music in appearance. Everyone lies to themselves about why they go.

quacked 4y ago
You are obviously not a classical musician--live music in a concert hall is a completely different experience than listening to high-quality audio by yourself. I'd bet a thousand dollars that I can tell the difference between listening to music in a concert hall vs. listening out of high-quality speakers.
- kilgnad 4y ago

lostlogin 4y ago

Doing it at 8am on a Friday morning is interesting. Who has spare time then?

saghm 4y ago
OT, but this reminds me: several years ago on my way to my office after getting off the subway in Times Square someone approached me looking like they had a question. I don't remember exactly why I stopped to talk to them (normally I would keep my earbuds on and just ignore people who looked like they were trying to solicit something since it's generally pretty obvious when someone is a tourist and actually needs help compared to having some other agenda), but I was absolutely thrown by them asking me "What state name ends in the letter K?" I assumed this was some sort of experiment and said "I'm really sorry, I'm on my way to work and don't have time for something like this". Before I could walk away, they asked me "What state are you from?", and I interpreted the question as being about where I grew up and not where I currently lived and said "Massachusetts". They looked at me strangely and said "the answer is New York, we're in New York right now". I told them I still had to get to work and said goodbye and rushed out due to embarrassment, and I still have no idea what their purpose for asking that was.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Money or Jesus. I just don’t know how which or how.
- humanrebar 4y ago
  They were soliciting for donations for some nonprofit and that was their ice breaker.

whiddershins 4y ago

Not to mention it was morning rush hour. People need to get to work on time.