4 ms·

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

Waterluvian 4y ago
You’re probably right. The just option and the satisfying option is probably not the pragmatic option. Eat the loss, write about it (like here, thank you!) and don’t beat yourself up over it.
kilgnad 4y ago
Lots of lawyers only collect a percentage of your winnings. And courts often award lawyer costs. Find one of those lawyers. For this the incentives are aligned.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  If it’s $500 no lawyer is going to go to court for $250. I doubt they have a $20,000 upwork balance.
  - kilgnad 4y ago
    Of course. Gotta do class action. The lawyer sues on behalf of MANY people. Then collects a percentage of that. A lawyer will do this and suggest this if he sees it's possible. If not likely he won't take the case.
rom-antics 4y ago
I would at least get someone to write a letter. That much isn't expensive and there's always a chance they'll give in at the first sign of legal trouble. If that doesn't work though, and the amount isn't worth a legal fight, I don't know if there's much you can do, sorry :/
voakbasda 4y ago
It should be inexpensive to send them a letter from a lawyer. That might be enough to get them to pay you what you are owed.
ssharp 4y ago
Depending on where you live, small claims court is an option if the amount owed is within the limits or if the max limit is acceptable for you. Don’t underestimate the value of a well-worded, signature required snail mail, either. That usually resolves these matters since it usually escalates to the right people.
- jahewson 4y ago
  Does Upwork have a binding arbitration clause? I’d expect them to. In which case, take them to arbitration! It’s pretty easy for you but costs them money.
  - Animats 4y ago
    Yes, their terms say they use JAMS under California law, which is not totally unreasonable. Read their terms. There's a dispute resolution procedure. First, they get to sit on your claim for 60 days, and then you get to go to arbitration.
emacsen 4y ago
Binding arbitration is a process I recently went through, and I think that it's excellent for two parties which are reasonably well positioned to pay for the expense of both the process and the lawyers, as well as wanting an expitied process. The way the clause is being used to quiet individuals is pretty awful, and while I'm not a lawyer, I suggest that indeed if you have a binding arbitration clause- exercise it. You can always retract your claim. In fact, arbitration bodies love settlements. If you don't, then indeed, go after them in small claims court. Upwork will have two choices: to fight you or not. They'll do the same calculation as you- the cost of the process will be expensive, and likely cost them more in legal fees then is in dispute, so they're likely to pay you to make it go away. If you think they're going to fight, then withdraw your arbitration claim, but I suggest before even doing that, explain your situation in a letter sent by email (or registered mail) to Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/about/contact https://www.upwork.com/about/contact And explain you'd like to resolve the matter amicably, but if that's not possible, you're prepared to exercise the arbitration clause (or take them to small claims court). This will alert their legal team, who will now explain to someone else that the matter doesn't make sense to fight, etc. Once again I Am Not A Lawyer, but I think this is your best bet in getting the money back. But of course if you do this, you won't be working with Upwork anymore.
- natt_coppola 4y ago
  Thank you for sharing your experience. I would probably, at least, try to send a letter by email and see how things go from there
michaelteter 4y ago
And they know this, and it is part of their business model. By their calculation, it is easier to have a few false-positives and make a few people angry than build a good system. You have to have a lot of persistence and a lot of money (or a hungry lawyer who will work for the reward only) to fight like this, in many cases. Now there might be some small court which has a low filing fee where you can make a case which requires them to respond, and that effort on their part may be deemed not worth the cost of just paying you to go away. So perhaps there's still something you could do practically.

You’re probably right. The just option and the satisfying option is probably not the pragmatic option. Eat the loss, write about it (like here, thank you!) and don’t beat yourself up over it.

kilgnad 4y ago

Lots of lawyers only collect a percentage of your winnings. And courts often award lawyer costs. Find one of those lawyers. For this the incentives are aligned.

brianwawok 4y ago
If it’s $500 no lawyer is going to go to court for $250. I doubt they have a $20,000 upwork balance.
- kilgnad 4y ago
  Of course. Gotta do class action. The lawyer sues on behalf of MANY people. Then collects a percentage of that. A lawyer will do this and suggest this if he sees it's possible. If not likely he won't take the case.

rom-antics 4y ago

I would at least get someone to write a letter. That much isn't expensive and there's always a chance they'll give in at the first sign of legal trouble. If that doesn't work though, and the amount isn't worth a legal fight, I don't know if there's much you can do, sorry :/

voakbasda 4y ago

It should be inexpensive to send them a letter from a lawyer. That might be enough to get them to pay you what you are owed.

ssharp 4y ago

Depending on where you live, small claims court is an option if the amount owed is within the limits or if the max limit is acceptable for you. Don’t underestimate the value of a well-worded, signature required snail mail, either. That usually resolves these matters since it usually escalates to the right people.

jahewson 4y ago
Does Upwork have a binding arbitration clause? I’d expect them to. In which case, take them to arbitration! It’s pretty easy for you but costs them money.
- Animats 4y ago
  Yes, their terms say they use JAMS under California law, which is not totally unreasonable. Read their terms. There's a dispute resolution procedure. First, they get to sit on your claim for 60 days, and then you get to go to arbitration.

emacsen 4y ago

Binding arbitration is a process I recently went through, and I think that it's excellent for two parties which are reasonably well positioned to pay for the expense of both the process and the lawyers, as well as wanting an expitied process. The way the clause is being used to quiet individuals is pretty awful, and while I'm not a lawyer, I suggest that indeed if you have a binding arbitration clause- exercise it. You can always retract your claim. In fact, arbitration bodies love settlements. If you don't, then indeed, go after them in small claims court. Upwork will have two choices: to fight you or not. They'll do the same calculation as you- the cost of the process will be expensive, and likely cost them more in legal fees then is in dispute, so they're likely to pay you to make it go away. If you think they're going to fight, then withdraw your arbitration claim, but I suggest before even doing that, explain your situation in a letter sent by email (or registered mail) to Upwork: https://www.upwork.com/about/contact https://www.upwork.com/about/contact And explain you'd like to resolve the matter amicably, but if that's not possible, you're prepared to exercise the arbitration clause (or take them to small claims court). This will alert their legal team, who will now explain to someone else that the matter doesn't make sense to fight, etc. Once again I Am Not A Lawyer, but I think this is your best bet in getting the money back. But of course if you do this, you won't be working with Upwork anymore.

natt_coppola 4y ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. I would probably, at least, try to send a letter by email and see how things go from there

michaelteter 4y ago

And they know this, and it is part of their business model. By their calculation, it is easier to have a few false-positives and make a few people angry than build a good system. You have to have a lot of persistence and a lot of money (or a hungry lawyer who will work for the reward only) to fight like this, in many cases. Now there might be some small court which has a low filing fee where you can make a case which requires them to respond, and that effort on their part may be deemed not worth the cost of just paying you to go away. So perhaps there's still something you could do practically.