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Of course they are, the issue is that their side-effects aren't easy to track in pure quantitative terms and even less in the short/medium-term. Layoffs affect

by piva00 4y ago

Of course they are, the issue is that their side-effects aren't easy to track in pure quantitative terms and even less in the short/medium-term. Layoffs affect morale, in R&D you see that directly on engineers' productivity and how product managers start to behave. PMs either get risk-averse (don't rock the boat, don't mess with profit-making schemes) which stifles innovation, or they get afraid on being on the next round of layoffs if they don't make an impact quickly, they start to push teams to deliver into their reactionary mode, catering more for short-term impact rather than long-term strategic value. It's a complete mess that you won't see in pure financial terms, it will have long ripple effects into the company, some companies bounce back, others get crippled by those ripples. Employees that aren't engaged and don't trust their employers won't do their best work, employees motivated by anxiety and fear won't produce their best work. They will produce whatever they need to keep employed, that's not the best thing for a company.

kcplate 4y ago
> Layoffs affect morale This is temporary in my experience. Especially in an organization that emerges from layoffs with better financial footing in an growing industry. Morale doesn’t bounce back when the survivors feel that the industry or company is dying. I doubt Meta and social media is going away anytime soon.
- piva00 4y ago
  The morale effect is temporary, the ripple effects of it, in my experience, linger for a very long time. That was my point, those are harder to visualise, quantify, but if you live the day-to-day in R&D/operations you see how people react to it over time. The analogy used in some layoffs discussions of cutting off a limb is fitting here too, your body can still perform some functions but some skills are harder to perform, some movements aren't possible or are very impaired, etc. You are still alive but you aren't the same anymore, for a company it can create really weird side-effects like some examples I brought up on the previous comment.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    The limb analogy is apt, but in my experience I’d change the analogy slightly and make the animal losing a limb a dog. There is a saying that “a dog is really a 3-legged animal born with a spare leg”. A three legged dog in a short time adapts and knowing a few tripod pooches in my life, my experience is they get along just fine, and to them, are not impaired compared to their 4 legged counterparts. I think companies are like that too. Layoffs can create definite temporary operational challenges. However, in organizations I have been in that have experienced layoffs, you just adapt and in time and eventually don’t notice the impairment the layoff caused. It’s just the new normal.

by piva00 4y ago

kcplate 4y ago

> Layoffs affect morale This is temporary in my experience. Especially in an organization that emerges from layoffs with better financial footing in an growing industry. Morale doesn’t bounce back when the survivors feel that the industry or company is dying. I doubt Meta and social media is going away anytime soon.

piva00 4y ago
The morale effect is temporary, the ripple effects of it, in my experience, linger for a very long time. That was my point, those are harder to visualise, quantify, but if you live the day-to-day in R&D/operations you see how people react to it over time. The analogy used in some layoffs discussions of cutting off a limb is fitting here too, your body can still perform some functions but some skills are harder to perform, some movements aren't possible or are very impaired, etc. You are still alive but you aren't the same anymore, for a company it can create really weird side-effects like some examples I brought up on the previous comment.
- kcplate 4y ago
  The limb analogy is apt, but in my experience I’d change the analogy slightly and make the animal losing a limb a dog. There is a saying that “a dog is really a 3-legged animal born with a spare leg”. A three legged dog in a short time adapts and knowing a few tripod pooches in my life, my experience is they get along just fine, and to them, are not impaired compared to their 4 legged counterparts. I think companies are like that too. Layoffs can create definite temporary operational challenges. However, in organizations I have been in that have experienced layoffs, you just adapt and in time and eventually don’t notice the impairment the layoff caused. It’s just the new normal.