5 ms·

Contrary to all the legends of "German quality/engineering" (of which there is certainly in certain industries) I've heard that German cars were shit during the

Contrary to all the legends of "German quality/engineering" (of which there is certainly in certain industries) I've heard that German cars were shit during the 90s. Japan OTOH seems to be very aware of how these newfangled tech can screw your reputation.

jen20 4y ago
The 90s was a sweet spot for the three luxury German brands: Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz. Mercedes in particular has had a very marked decline in quality since then.
- ls612 4y ago
  Like what’s the highest quality luxury brand now, Lexus? Given that it’s Toyota engineering behind it I’d assume they are still good but I’ve never been in that market so idk.
  - jen20 4y ago
    Still those three, plus Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Range Rover etc.
    - monkpit 4y ago
      Are you claiming that Land Rover makes a high quality product? Or just a luxurious one?
      - jen20 4y ago
        Mostly a luxurious one today. I test drove a 2012 Range Rover in 2020 and all the rubber on the controls had melted. Would Not Recommend, but they are popular certainly.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      RR is overpriced junk.
  - jabits 4y ago
    I am currently renting and driving a Tesla from Hertz at SEA on mainland for a week of skiing at Mt Baker. I have a 2020 Lexus RXL at home. While the Tesla has better driving software and sportier handling, the Lexus rides much better and quieter and just seems nicer. Anyway, love the Lexus fwiw.
- isbjorn16 4y ago
  I had a 2001 Audi and it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned. I bought a 2016 Audi trying to replicate that and I was dumbfounded by how little it had changed in 15 years, but what _had_ changed seemed to be distinctly for the worse. I won't be buying another one :(
cameronh90 4y ago
Honestly, I feel like German cars have an undeserved reputation for quality. German cars are superficially well built, quite fast, and make satisfying thunks when you close the doors. However, they are fairly unreliable, sensitive, and when they do fail, cost a lot to repair. I'll take a Japanese car any day, however, Hyundai, Volvo, Skoda, Kia, Peugeot and Ford are also better engineered than most German cars nowadays in my opinion.
- gambiting 4y ago
  This is just a personal anecdote - I got a brand new Mercedes in 2016, it was even fully made in Germany - and it was probably the worst assembled vehicle I have ever owned in my life(and I used to own a 1995 Fiat Cinquecento), the number of creaks and rattles coming from all places in that car was almost funny if it wasn't so upsetting. I've had several visits to the dealership just to fix rattling seats, upholstery, dashboard and sunroof. Drove very well and never had any mechanical or electrical problems, but the interior was horrendous. Then in 2020 I swapped it for a brand new Volvo XC60(made in China!) and in the last 3 years this car has literally been completely trouble free. No rattles from anywhere, nothing. Extremely well put together, comfortable, drove it across Europe multiple times now and literally no issues with it whatsoever. Such a stark contrast to mercedes for me.
  - Keyframe 4y ago
    Are you sure it's made in China? For most markets XC60 are built either in Sweden or indeed in China, but I always wondered about chinese-produced ones. Fellow Volvo owner (XC90/2022 - Sweden-built though), car's a dream.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Yes I'm very sure. The car was built in Chengdou in January 2020 then transported over here by train (option which no longer exists at the moment because Russia closed the land link so cars have to be brought to Europe by ship the old fashioned way). It's a T8 plug-in hybrid for the British market.
isbjorn16 4y ago
someone should let toyota know, because their software sucks 5 kinds of taint on my 2020 taco
bombolo 4y ago
> Japan OTOH seems to be very aware of how these newfangled tech can screw your reputation. My toyota is absolute crap, if this helps.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  What's wrong with it? But yes it seems like more recenr toyotas are crap, especially the interior.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    It has a neat feature of auto locking itself if you forgot it, so if you forgot your keys in, they will be autolocked in. The positions of the pedals is not fit for humans (but that's a bit OT) The integrated not readily replaceable without servicing the entire dashboard USB port just broke. The feature to alert me when I'm about to hit an obstacle triggers when I've already done a full stop. The radio touch interface is awful. There is basically no way to say "play everything". You've got to select the artist, then the album, blabla. Of course you need to stop the car to move on to the next album. The detection for speed signals is so wrong. It consistently gets the signs that are meant for slow-down lanes to exit the highway as the actual limit I'm supposed to have. In some specific places it imagines ghost speed signs every single time I pass.
    - mindentropy 4y ago
      Apart from the electronic junk how is the actual driving experience? Can you drive comfortably with good power?
      - bombolo 4y ago
        > Can you drive comfortably As I said, the pedals are placed in a position that was not designed with human beings in mind. So, not really. Quite uncomfortable.

jen20 4y ago

The 90s was a sweet spot for the three luxury German brands: Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz. Mercedes in particular has had a very marked decline in quality since then.

ls612 4y ago
Like what’s the highest quality luxury brand now, Lexus? Given that it’s Toyota engineering behind it I’d assume they are still good but I’ve never been in that market so idk.
- jen20 4y ago
  Still those three, plus Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Range Rover etc.
  - monkpit 4y ago
    Are you claiming that Land Rover makes a high quality product? Or just a luxurious one?
    - jen20 4y ago
      Mostly a luxurious one today. I test drove a 2012 Range Rover in 2020 and all the rubber on the controls had melted. Would Not Recommend, but they are popular certainly.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    RR is overpriced junk.
- jabits 4y ago
  I am currently renting and driving a Tesla from Hertz at SEA on mainland for a week of skiing at Mt Baker. I have a 2020 Lexus RXL at home. While the Tesla has better driving software and sportier handling, the Lexus rides much better and quieter and just seems nicer. Anyway, love the Lexus fwiw.
isbjorn16 4y ago
I had a 2001 Audi and it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned. I bought a 2016 Audi trying to replicate that and I was dumbfounded by how little it had changed in 15 years, but what _had_ changed seemed to be distinctly for the worse. I won't be buying another one :(

cameronh90 4y ago

Honestly, I feel like German cars have an undeserved reputation for quality. German cars are superficially well built, quite fast, and make satisfying thunks when you close the doors. However, they are fairly unreliable, sensitive, and when they do fail, cost a lot to repair. I'll take a Japanese car any day, however, Hyundai, Volvo, Skoda, Kia, Peugeot and Ford are also better engineered than most German cars nowadays in my opinion.

gambiting 4y ago
This is just a personal anecdote - I got a brand new Mercedes in 2016, it was even fully made in Germany - and it was probably the worst assembled vehicle I have ever owned in my life(and I used to own a 1995 Fiat Cinquecento), the number of creaks and rattles coming from all places in that car was almost funny if it wasn't so upsetting. I've had several visits to the dealership just to fix rattling seats, upholstery, dashboard and sunroof. Drove very well and never had any mechanical or electrical problems, but the interior was horrendous. Then in 2020 I swapped it for a brand new Volvo XC60(made in China!) and in the last 3 years this car has literally been completely trouble free. No rattles from anywhere, nothing. Extremely well put together, comfortable, drove it across Europe multiple times now and literally no issues with it whatsoever. Such a stark contrast to mercedes for me.
- Keyframe 4y ago
  Are you sure it's made in China? For most markets XC60 are built either in Sweden or indeed in China, but I always wondered about chinese-produced ones. Fellow Volvo owner (XC90/2022 - Sweden-built though), car's a dream.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Yes I'm very sure. The car was built in Chengdou in January 2020 then transported over here by train (option which no longer exists at the moment because Russia closed the land link so cars have to be brought to Europe by ship the old fashioned way). It's a T8 plug-in hybrid for the British market.

isbjorn16 4y ago

someone should let toyota know, because their software sucks 5 kinds of taint on my 2020 taco

bombolo 4y ago

> Japan OTOH seems to be very aware of how these newfangled tech can screw your reputation. My toyota is absolute crap, if this helps.

mardifoufs 4y ago
What's wrong with it? But yes it seems like more recenr toyotas are crap, especially the interior.
- bombolo 4y ago
  It has a neat feature of auto locking itself if you forgot it, so if you forgot your keys in, they will be autolocked in. The positions of the pedals is not fit for humans (but that's a bit OT) The integrated not readily replaceable without servicing the entire dashboard USB port just broke. The feature to alert me when I'm about to hit an obstacle triggers when I've already done a full stop. The radio touch interface is awful. There is basically no way to say "play everything". You've got to select the artist, then the album, blabla. Of course you need to stop the car to move on to the next album. The detection for speed signals is so wrong. It consistently gets the signs that are meant for slow-down lanes to exit the highway as the actual limit I'm supposed to have. In some specific places it imagines ghost speed signs every single time I pass.
  - mindentropy 4y ago
    Apart from the electronic junk how is the actual driving experience? Can you drive comfortably with good power?
    - bombolo 4y ago
      > Can you drive comfortably As I said, the pedals are placed in a position that was not designed with human beings in mind. So, not really. Quite uncomfortable.