5 ms·

Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people. They pay really well for German standards and have access to a larg

Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people. They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
Big and well paid doesn’t equal quality. The fiasco of id3 is the best example. Or the whole Audi/VW drama. It doesn’t change the fact that their management just doesn’t get software. Pouring more money over that and hiring more “talent” isn’t going to change that.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Most hardware companies are not known for good software. They treat software like it's just another line item on the BOM: Like a bolt or a screw. Procure it as cheaply as possible, scoop it into the product on the assembly line, and make sure it passes a few checkboxes and you're done. Unless they see software as a core differentiating product feature that drives purchases, their quality bar is going to be "barely good enough to not cause a product recall".
  - mantas 4y ago
    These days even most software companies ain't known for good software :D There's very few quality software products these days. And that's usually just a temporary state before eventually a product gets messed with :(
- pbasista 4y ago
  > The fiasco of id3 Could you explain what specifically you refer to?
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-ev-delay-software-vw-herbert-diess https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-e... + general search for "software id3" shows that issues plague this car to this day. Diess lost his job because of that: https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/26/from_beetles_to_bugs_vw/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/26/from_beetles_to_bugs_....
ulfw 4y ago
Most of their software is done outside of Germany. MBRDI, known for its engineering innovations, has grown to a team of over 6,000 employees and is one of the earliest technology and innovation center of a global automotive company to set up a strong presence in India. https://www.mbrdi.co.in https://www.mbrdi.co.in At Mercedes-Benz Research & Development North America, we develop and certify cars for the U.S. and the world in six locations. Our work ranges from powertrain development and vehicle certification, to autonomous driving technology and in-car user experiences including advanced interior and exterior design. It is not just about cars, it is also about creating the latest and greatest software, cutting-edge technology, and groundbreaking innovation. Locations: Ann Arbor, MI Carlsbad, CA Long Beach, CA Redford, MI Seattle, WA Sunnyvale, CA https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/north-america/mercedes-benz-r-d.html https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/north-america/merced...
- orbifold 4y ago
  Volkswagen planned to hire 10000 new people for their "Car.Software" division in Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt, Berlin, as well as Seattle und Peking until 2025. They are also building up their hardware division with plans to do cutting edge node designs in 5nm and beyond. I know that they have extensive recruiting efforts in both areas.
VirusNewbie 4y ago
Do you think the talent pool of people that want to live in germany and don’t want to make substantially more working for american companies is large?
- orbifold 4y ago
  Have you lived in Germany? I would only consider going to the US for substantially higher pay. Also there are 80 million Germans, many of whom are fairly well educated and would like to work for Mercedes in Stuttgart.
  - VirusNewbie 4y ago
    Oh, I didn’t mean immigration, I meant there are US companies that have offices in Germany that pay more and likely scoop up the local talent.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people. That doesn't mean jack. Most large German companies I worked at tended to be super inefficient, being very top heavy and prone to constant turf wars and power struggles between the managers, as that was the only career path that made you any decent money so everyone was focusing on that instead of building great products. >They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. Meh, pay is underwhelming, as they focus more on getting off-shore talent from abroad on a visa who's more interested in getting to Germany at any cost rather than netting a higher market wage or increasing wages to attract local talent. These companies are good places to coast on average wages, not to make money and innovate making great products.
nix23 4y ago
>They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. But they don't pay well for IT standards, German standards (IT) are lower (sometimes a lot) then polish ones. >large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. From Hungary, Romania or Turkey? Because no one else in Europe would like to work in Germany (in the IT industry). A bit of reality salt would be better for the German IT-Industry.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago

Big and well paid doesn’t equal quality. The fiasco of id3 is the best example. Or the whole Audi/VW drama. It doesn’t change the fact that their management just doesn’t get software. Pouring more money over that and hiring more “talent” isn’t going to change that.

ryandrake 4y ago
Most hardware companies are not known for good software. They treat software like it's just another line item on the BOM: Like a bolt or a screw. Procure it as cheaply as possible, scoop it into the product on the assembly line, and make sure it passes a few checkboxes and you're done. Unless they see software as a core differentiating product feature that drives purchases, their quality bar is going to be "barely good enough to not cause a product recall".
- mantas 4y ago
  These days even most software companies ain't known for good software :D There's very few quality software products these days. And that's usually just a temporary state before eventually a product gets messed with :(
pbasista 4y ago
> The fiasco of id3 Could you explain what specifically you refer to?
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-ev-delay-software-vw-herbert-diess https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-e... + general search for "software id3" shows that issues plague this car to this day. Diess lost his job because of that: https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/26/from_beetles_to_bugs_vw/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/26/from_beetles_to_bugs_....

ulfw 4y ago

Most of their software is done outside of Germany. MBRDI, known for its engineering innovations, has grown to a team of over 6,000 employees and is one of the earliest technology and innovation center of a global automotive company to set up a strong presence in India. https://www.mbrdi.co.in https://www.mbrdi.co.in At Mercedes-Benz Research & Development North America, we develop and certify cars for the U.S. and the world in six locations. Our work ranges from powertrain development and vehicle certification, to autonomous driving technology and in-car user experiences including advanced interior and exterior design. It is not just about cars, it is also about creating the latest and greatest software, cutting-edge technology, and groundbreaking innovation. Locations: Ann Arbor, MI Carlsbad, CA Long Beach, CA Redford, MI Seattle, WA Sunnyvale, CA https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/north-america/mercedes-benz-r-d.html https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/north-america/merced...

orbifold 4y ago
Volkswagen planned to hire 10000 new people for their "Car.Software" division in Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt, Berlin, as well as Seattle und Peking until 2025. They are also building up their hardware division with plans to do cutting edge node designs in 5nm and beyond. I know that they have extensive recruiting efforts in both areas.

VirusNewbie 4y ago

Do you think the talent pool of people that want to live in germany and don’t want to make substantially more working for american companies is large?

orbifold 4y ago
Have you lived in Germany? I would only consider going to the US for substantially higher pay. Also there are 80 million Germans, many of whom are fairly well educated and would like to work for Mercedes in Stuttgart.
- VirusNewbie 4y ago
  Oh, I didn’t mean immigration, I meant there are US companies that have offices in Germany that pay more and likely scoop up the local talent.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people. That doesn't mean jack. Most large German companies I worked at tended to be super inefficient, being very top heavy and prone to constant turf wars and power struggles between the managers, as that was the only career path that made you any decent money so everyone was focusing on that instead of building great products. >They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. Meh, pay is underwhelming, as they focus more on getting off-shore talent from abroad on a visa who's more interested in getting to Germany at any cost rather than netting a higher market wage or increasing wages to attract local talent. These companies are good places to coast on average wages, not to make money and innovate making great products.

nix23 4y ago

>They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. But they don't pay well for IT standards, German standards (IT) are lower (sometimes a lot) then polish ones. >large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany. From Hungary, Romania or Turkey? Because no one else in Europe would like to work in Germany (in the IT industry). A bit of reality salt would be better for the German IT-Industry.