9 ms·

Mexico's former public security head convicted by U.S. of taking cartel bribes

156 points by xrd 4y ago

l3mure 4y ago
> A former smuggler said García Luna shared a document containing U.S. law enforcement information about a 2007 seized cocaine shipment, the AP reported. NPR really burying the lede here. [1] > But the story that most got me was when El Grande, or Sergio Villarreal Barragán, described how the traffickers got their seized cocaine back. He was talking about Mexico’s biggest ever cocaine haul, when the marines took down 23 tons off a ship from Colombia in the port of Manzanillo in 2007. I covered it at the time and it was a big deal, proof that President Felipe Calderón, the boss of García Luna, was taking on the cartels. The New York Times sent a correspondent to watch it burn, and he described the “pomp and ceremony” as the white cocaine morphed into a black cloud. > But it was all a lie, according to El Grande. “We exchange fake drugs for the good drugs,” he told the court. “At a ranch where we trained our hit men, we created a small factory so that we could develop the bricks…We made a mixture of sugar and flour so that we could compress them. They were actually mixed with acetone and ether. And we had them dry out. Once they were dried, we would cover them with varnish so that they would look shiny. And we would package them as any other cocaine brick. And that's how we did it…We transferred them to the Manzanillo port, and I delivered them.” > You caught speculations that cartels were pulling such stunts. But to hear it told in a U.S. federal court really drives it home. The destruction of drugs was a simulation. You could not trust what you saw with your own eyes. The Mexican government, or elements of it, had created a whole simulation it was fighting a war on cartels when really it was working with them. [1] https://ioangrillo.substack.com/p/so-is-mexico-a-narco-state https://ioangrillo.substack.com/p/so-is-mexico-a-narco-state (h/t https://twitter.com/ElParece/status/1628414077461573634 https://twitter.com/ElParece/status/1628414077461573634)
- serf 4y ago
  >We made a mixture of sugar and flour so that we could compress them. They were actually mixed with acetone and ether. And we had them dry out. Once they were dried, we would cover them with varnish so that they would look shiny. that sounds like one terrible fire to be anywhere near.
  - viscanti 4y ago
    > that sounds like one terrible fire to be anywhere near. You think you're free basing smoke from a mountain of burning cocaine bricks and you end up inhaling something dangerous instead. Sounds like a big problem.
    - cjbgkagh 4y ago
      Flower (and I guess sugar) can be explosive like a rudimentary fuel bomb. It has to be aerated first. If it’s tightly packed it’ll just smolder. If it’s aerated enough a shockwave will go through and oxidize it all at once. It’ll be one hell of an explosion. With cocaine you could probably be safe by standing up wind of the burn.
      - notch898a 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_ex... If you work at a grain mill they'll probably show you the video.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Is there some reason cocaine can't cause a dust explosion?
        cjbgkagh 4y ago
        Mainly because I’ve never heard of one despite many large quantities of cocaine being burnt off after seizures (though maybe it was never cocaine). Cocaine melts (which I think is endothermic - chemistry class was a long time ago) and it doesn’t have as many oxygen atoms available in the molecule increasing the aeration requirement. Under ideal circumstances I’m sure just about anything that oxidizes could be made into a fuel air bomb but for it to happen accidentally it must be able to readily happen in much less than ideal circumstances. For things like flour particles can get drawn up into the smoke clouds mix with air in enough quantity to produce a shockwave and that explosion can cause more particles to get thrown into the air for secondary explosions.
- twelve40 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing, I found that article pretty moving > that does not mean the entire Mexican state is illegitimate. School teachers get up every morning to teach millions of children from the roughest barrios to the southern jungles. Doctors and nurses save lives every day despite many hospitals being in dire need of repair. And rubbish collectors keep coming to my corner every morning to take away the endless garbage this metropolis of Mexico City churns out. I hope to god they find a way out of this, it's a great country that can really do better than this...
- AndyMcConachie 4y ago
  The CIA did the exact same thing with KMT soldiers in Burma smuggling heroin in the 1970s. It's in The Politics of Heroin by Alfred McCoy. A great book if you want to understand the interplay between intelligence agencies and drug dealers. Then they exchanged heroin for fake heroin and burned the fake heroin for US journalists. There is nothing new under in the sun in our stupid war on drugs.
  - l3mure 4y ago
    Peter Dale Scott recently published an old manuscript of his on the topic, as well as a couple podcasts with McCoy. It's fascinating stuff. https://americanexception.com/private-war-enterprise-in-asia-air-america-the-brook-club-and-the-kuomintang/ https://americanexception.com/private-war-enterprise-in-asia...
danielfoster 4y ago
It’s astonishing that a conviction was reached on witness testimony alone. There was no physical evidence or video-- just testimony from other drug smugglers who obviously wanted good deals themselves. I don't doubt the stories of the witnesses. It is just surprising to see a conviction on this alone.
- vuln 4y ago
  >It is just surprising to see a conviction on this alone. Maybe someone got a promotion out of it? Maybe? Haha. I'm sure someone was promoted.
- foogazi 4y ago
  Leading up to the verdict this was surprising to me too Far fetched testimony from those that have nothing to lose - that even contradicted their previous testimony
- the_70x 4y ago
  Ever read Anabel Hernandez? You would be surprised about the evidence
- aliyfarah 4y ago
  The US justice system routinely hands out life sentences especially in drug cases with zero physical evidence all thanks to "conspiracy laws".
ecommerceguy 4y ago
Makes me wonder if any factions of the US government is working in cahoots with cartels.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  I'd say it's a firm "probably": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi....
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  you wonder if anyone working in the US government is human?
  - danny_taco 4y ago
    I've worked for the US government and I can tell you we all are humans.
- testTED 4y ago
  Previous Mexican Presidents have been outed as CIA assets.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    It’s certainly more of a situation where they play both sides. Do things for the cartels and the CIA, less of a playing your enemies against each other and more of doing the minimum to survive.
    - testTED 4y ago
      Nobody seemed to be playing the blame game, that just devolves into emotional appeals. Most important to highlight the systemic structure of these problems.
  - jonathanlb 4y ago
    I was curious which Presidents were CIA assets, and it's three (that we know of): - Adolfo López Mateos (1958-1964) - Gustavo Díaz Ordaz (1964-1970) - Luis Echeverría (1970-1976) > The declassified U.S. documents reveal CIA recruitment of agents within the upper echelons of the Mexican government between 1956 and 1969. The informants used in this secret program included President Gustavo Díaz Ordaz and future President Luis Echeverría. The documents detail the relationships cultivated between senior CIA officers, such as chief of station Winston Scott, and Mexican government officials through a secret spy network code-named "LITEMPO." Operating out of the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, Scott used the LITEMPO project to provide "an unofficial channel for the exchange of selected sensitive political information which each government wanted the other to receive but not through public protocol exchanges." https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/ https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/
melling 4y ago
This really isn't a HN story. However, the American consumer funding both sides on the war on drugs for half a century seems a bit insane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  And not only that, the American pressure for other states to do the same makes the problem bigger instead of smaller. It should be evident that it doesn't work, because the same system creates opportunities: when they take a drug dealer, another one pops out in their place, when they make it harder to traffic heroin, opiates or other drugs take its place. I certainly don't want hard drugs to run unchecked in Mexico, where I live, but fostering a black market is not the solution either.
  - lefstathiou 4y ago
    So what do you believe is the solution that prevents hard drugs from running “unchecked” while not fostering a black market? “Education” about how bad drugs are for you?
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Start with not forcing producer countries into disastrous trade agreements that upend their labor markets (especially in agriculture) and food sovereignty.
      - alasdair_ 4y ago
        How are they forced? Would they be better off if they didn’t sell to the US?
        AngriestLettuce 4y ago
        Are you better off if I punch you in the face or kick you in the groin? It's a false choice, and it's pretty psychopathic.
randombits0 4y ago
So how can the US prosecute crimes committed in other countries?
- loeg 4y ago
  If you ever interact with the US banking system, or have any impact on US persons or businesses, the US views itself as having jurisdiction.
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    You'll shit bricks when you read about the undercover Chinese police stations then... https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-poli...
    - GauntletWizard 4y ago
      There's a huge difference between the US having an international network of law enforcement co-operation (even if we do have boots on the ground doing investigative work) and the Chinese Police Stations going out and strongarming people individually. Countries are supposed to have a monopoly on the use of force within their borders. Lending it out is good international relations. Not that it's never acceptable to violate that - The Takedown of Bin Laden was a law enforcement action taken overseas by the US military in a country that was not informed until after it was on it's way out.
      - mLuby 4y ago
        > Lending [a country's monopoly on force] out is good international relations. No, extradition is good international relations, but there the country retains its territorial monopoly on force. > Not that it's never acceptable to violate [sovereignty]. What would be different about a scenario where Russia snuck commandos into the US to "law enforcement action" some Ukrainians? Nothing, because it's not acceptable, it's simply "might makes right." (That said, bin Laden was horrible and Ukraine is awesome.)
pstuart 4y ago
How can we expect anyone in power in these cartel countries to be free of corruption. They all have a choice of payment, in silver or lead -- https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=plata%20o%20plomo https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=plata%20o%20... The only sane answer is to legalize, regulate, and tax all drugs. This needs to be followed by treating drug abuse/addiction as a health issue (not criminal).
- DFHippie 4y ago
  Perhaps, but that isn't a complete solution. I watched smuggled cigarettes being transferred from one semi to another when I was hitching around Spain back in the 90s (the Spanish guy driving the car told me this is what I was seeing). There was profit in crime still because there was profit in dodging the tax.
  - jslaby 4y ago
    Probably not profit in the $100 millions though. This is when you start seeing brutal defense of those profits.. turf war, beheadings..
- xrd 4y ago
  It's interesting, that's what happened in Portland, right? It is really curious to think about the cartels as large startups. If you take that leap, it would be logical that they would be violently opposed to decriminalization. Like competing gangs would be killing people, and the cartels would be doing anything they can to convince the local government to redact that decision. I'm not saying I've got any evidence that cartels are committing crimes in places where drugs are legalized to change laws, but it is interesting that Portland crime has increased a lot. Many people will say that's because of liberal politicians. But there is other information that says that more policing almost never reduces crime directly. And the corollary is that reducing police, either by defunding or attrition, wouldn't cause increases in crime, right? If anyone has perspectives on what Portland did wrong, I'm interested in hearing it. It is really bizarre to me as a native Portlander that crime seems so excessive. I never felt unsafe in the prior forty years and things seem very different now. The only two big differences were the endless protests against police brutality and the legalization of drugs. Why did this crime surge increase so much in Portland?
miguelazo 4y ago
Just another reminder of the disaster that previous presidents left for AMLO. Mexico’s security situation has steadily deteriorated since Vicente Fox tried to impress his buddy GWB by pursuing the idiotic “kingpin strategy” of the gringos.
- adl 4y ago
  Do you really believe AMLO is different?
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    In many respects, absolutely. And that is why the PRI and PAN have conspired with their cartel buddies and gringos to try to undermine him. I think he has made plenty of mistakes, but he’s at least more concerned with his country than getting rich and becoming a visiting lecturer at HKS.
    - SammyNameTaken 4y ago
      could it be that those “cartel buddies” were kicked out by the current cartel in power?
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        That's certainly a possibility. I haven't seen any evidence that the AMLO administration is actively collaborating with the cartels, but they have been quite open about not pursuing the failed strategies of the past, like working with the DEA: https://world.time.com/2014/01/14/dea-boosted-mexican-drug-cartel/ https://world.time.com/2014/01/14/dea-boosted-mexican-drug-c...
user3939382 4y ago
So long as the financial resources of the cartels is in the same neighborhood as Mexican law enforcement, nothing will solve this problem. I can’t believe that the US with its resources can have a border neighbor in this bad of shape without somehow being to blame at a national policy level.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Corruption at the levels seen in Mexico is a very, very hard thing to expel from a culture where it’s well-entrenched. Like trying to being democracy to other countries, no amount of resources and effort will work if the population fundamentally isn’t ready for it.
  - thewarpaint 4y ago
    However, it was pretty easy for the US to topple democracies abroad regardless of the population’s opinions about it.
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      Indeed it’s easier to destroy than to build.
- notfunnyrando 4y ago
  I think you misjudge the intentions of the US government. do you really think this is about stopping drugs? as far as I can tell what they really want is to sell guns (to cartels) and buy the best of the goods (good drugs for good parties?)
  - user3939382 4y ago
    I presume every major national policy is fueled by corruption, pay to play, and enriching our politicians, their donors, or both.
- ShredKazoo 4y ago
deterministic 4y ago
In Mexico, how do you know if a person is being paid by the cartels? That’s easy. If the cartels are not trying to assassinate the person then the answer is yes.
meowtimemania 4y ago
Does everywhere in the world have a drug problem a la US-Mexico? Why has it gotten so bad here but not elsewhere?
hulitu 4y ago
So Mexico is a state of US. If i do a crime in my country, another country cannot charge me with my crimes in my country because it has no jurisdiction.

156 points by xrd 4y ago

> A former smuggler said García Luna shared a document containing U.S. law enforcement information about a 2007 seized cocaine shipment, the AP reported. NPR really burying the lede here. [1] > But the story that most got me was when El Grande, or Sergio Villarreal Barragán, described how the traffickers got their seized cocaine back. He was talking about Mexico’s biggest ever cocaine haul, when the marines took down 23 tons off a ship from Colombia in the port of Manzanillo in 2007. I covered it at the time and it was a big deal, proof that President Felipe Calderón, the boss of García Luna, was taking on the cartels. The New York Times sent a correspondent to watch it burn, and he described the “pomp and ceremony” as the white cocaine morphed into a black cloud. > But it was all a lie, according to El Grande. “We exchange fake drugs for the good drugs,” he told the court. “At a ranch where we trained our hit men, we created a small factory so that we could develop the bricks…We made a mixture of sugar and flour so that we could compress them. They were actually mixed with acetone and ether. And we had them dry out. Once they were dried, we would cover them with varnish so that they would look shiny. And we would package them as any other cocaine brick. And that's how we did it…We transferred them to the Manzanillo port, and I delivered them.” > You caught speculations that cartels were pulling such stunts. But to hear it told in a U.S. federal court really drives it home. The destruction of drugs was a simulation. You could not trust what you saw with your own eyes. The Mexican government, or elements of it, had created a whole simulation it was fighting a war on cartels when really it was working with them. [1] https://ioangrillo.substack.com/p/so-is-mexico-a-narco-state https://ioangrillo.substack.com/p/so-is-mexico-a-narco-state (h/t https://twitter.com/ElParece/status/1628414077461573634 https://twitter.com/ElParece/status/1628414077461573634)

serf 4y ago
>We made a mixture of sugar and flour so that we could compress them. They were actually mixed with acetone and ether. And we had them dry out. Once they were dried, we would cover them with varnish so that they would look shiny. that sounds like one terrible fire to be anywhere near.
- viscanti 4y ago
  > that sounds like one terrible fire to be anywhere near. You think you're free basing smoke from a mountain of burning cocaine bricks and you end up inhaling something dangerous instead. Sounds like a big problem.
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    Flower (and I guess sugar) can be explosive like a rudimentary fuel bomb. It has to be aerated first. If it’s tightly packed it’ll just smolder. If it’s aerated enough a shockwave will go through and oxidize it all at once. It’ll be one hell of an explosion. With cocaine you could probably be safe by standing up wind of the burn.
    - notch898a 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_explosion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_ex... If you work at a grain mill they'll probably show you the video.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Is there some reason cocaine can't cause a dust explosion?
      - cjbgkagh 4y ago
        Mainly because I’ve never heard of one despite many large quantities of cocaine being burnt off after seizures (though maybe it was never cocaine). Cocaine melts (which I think is endothermic - chemistry class was a long time ago) and it doesn’t have as many oxygen atoms available in the molecule increasing the aeration requirement. Under ideal circumstances I’m sure just about anything that oxidizes could be made into a fuel air bomb but for it to happen accidentally it must be able to readily happen in much less than ideal circumstances. For things like flour particles can get drawn up into the smoke clouds mix with air in enough quantity to produce a shockwave and that explosion can cause more particles to get thrown into the air for secondary explosions.
twelve40 4y ago
Thanks for sharing, I found that article pretty moving > that does not mean the entire Mexican state is illegitimate. School teachers get up every morning to teach millions of children from the roughest barrios to the southern jungles. Doctors and nurses save lives every day despite many hospitals being in dire need of repair. And rubbish collectors keep coming to my corner every morning to take away the endless garbage this metropolis of Mexico City churns out. I hope to god they find a way out of this, it's a great country that can really do better than this...
AndyMcConachie 4y ago
The CIA did the exact same thing with KMT soldiers in Burma smuggling heroin in the 1970s. It's in The Politics of Heroin by Alfred McCoy. A great book if you want to understand the interplay between intelligence agencies and drug dealers. Then they exchanged heroin for fake heroin and burned the fake heroin for US journalists. There is nothing new under in the sun in our stupid war on drugs.
- l3mure 4y ago
  Peter Dale Scott recently published an old manuscript of his on the topic, as well as a couple podcasts with McCoy. It's fascinating stuff. https://americanexception.com/private-war-enterprise-in-asia-air-america-the-brook-club-and-the-kuomintang/ https://americanexception.com/private-war-enterprise-in-asia...

danielfoster 4y ago

It’s astonishing that a conviction was reached on witness testimony alone. There was no physical evidence or video-- just testimony from other drug smugglers who obviously wanted good deals themselves. I don't doubt the stories of the witnesses. It is just surprising to see a conviction on this alone.

vuln 4y ago
>It is just surprising to see a conviction on this alone. Maybe someone got a promotion out of it? Maybe? Haha. I'm sure someone was promoted.
foogazi 4y ago
Leading up to the verdict this was surprising to me too Far fetched testimony from those that have nothing to lose - that even contradicted their previous testimony
the_70x 4y ago
Ever read Anabel Hernandez? You would be surprised about the evidence
aliyfarah 4y ago
The US justice system routinely hands out life sentences especially in drug cases with zero physical evidence all thanks to "conspiracy laws".

ecommerceguy 4y ago

Makes me wonder if any factions of the US government is working in cahoots with cartels.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
I'd say it's a firm "probably": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi....
readthenotes1 4y ago
you wonder if anyone working in the US government is human?
- danny_taco 4y ago
  I've worked for the US government and I can tell you we all are humans.
testTED 4y ago
Previous Mexican Presidents have been outed as CIA assets.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  It’s certainly more of a situation where they play both sides. Do things for the cartels and the CIA, less of a playing your enemies against each other and more of doing the minimum to survive.
  - testTED 4y ago
    Nobody seemed to be playing the blame game, that just devolves into emotional appeals. Most important to highlight the systemic structure of these problems.
- jonathanlb 4y ago
  I was curious which Presidents were CIA assets, and it's three (that we know of): - Adolfo López Mateos (1958-1964) - Gustavo Díaz Ordaz (1964-1970) - Luis Echeverría (1970-1976) > The declassified U.S. documents reveal CIA recruitment of agents within the upper echelons of the Mexican government between 1956 and 1969. The informants used in this secret program included President Gustavo Díaz Ordaz and future President Luis Echeverría. The documents detail the relationships cultivated between senior CIA officers, such as chief of station Winston Scott, and Mexican government officials through a secret spy network code-named "LITEMPO." Operating out of the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, Scott used the LITEMPO project to provide "an unofficial channel for the exchange of selected sensitive political information which each government wanted the other to receive but not through public protocol exchanges." https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/ https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB204/

melling 4y ago

This really isn't a HN story. However, the American consumer funding both sides on the war on drugs for half a century seems a bit insane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs

ASalazarMX 4y ago
And not only that, the American pressure for other states to do the same makes the problem bigger instead of smaller. It should be evident that it doesn't work, because the same system creates opportunities: when they take a drug dealer, another one pops out in their place, when they make it harder to traffic heroin, opiates or other drugs take its place. I certainly don't want hard drugs to run unchecked in Mexico, where I live, but fostering a black market is not the solution either.
- lefstathiou 4y ago
  So what do you believe is the solution that prevents hard drugs from running “unchecked” while not fostering a black market? “Education” about how bad drugs are for you?
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Start with not forcing producer countries into disastrous trade agreements that upend their labor markets (especially in agriculture) and food sovereignty.
    - alasdair_ 4y ago
      How are they forced? Would they be better off if they didn’t sell to the US?
      - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
        Are you better off if I punch you in the face or kick you in the groin? It's a false choice, and it's pretty psychopathic.

randombits0 4y ago

So how can the US prosecute crimes committed in other countries?

loeg 4y ago
If you ever interact with the US banking system, or have any impact on US persons or businesses, the US views itself as having jurisdiction.
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  You'll shit bricks when you read about the undercover Chinese police stations then... https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-poli...
  - GauntletWizard 4y ago
    There's a huge difference between the US having an international network of law enforcement co-operation (even if we do have boots on the ground doing investigative work) and the Chinese Police Stations going out and strongarming people individually. Countries are supposed to have a monopoly on the use of force within their borders. Lending it out is good international relations. Not that it's never acceptable to violate that - The Takedown of Bin Laden was a law enforcement action taken overseas by the US military in a country that was not informed until after it was on it's way out.
    - mLuby 4y ago
      > Lending [a country's monopoly on force] out is good international relations. No, extradition is good international relations, but there the country retains its territorial monopoly on force. > Not that it's never acceptable to violate [sovereignty]. What would be different about a scenario where Russia snuck commandos into the US to "law enforcement action" some Ukrainians? Nothing, because it's not acceptable, it's simply "might makes right." (That said, bin Laden was horrible and Ukraine is awesome.)

pstuart 4y ago

How can we expect anyone in power in these cartel countries to be free of corruption. They all have a choice of payment, in silver or lead -- https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=plata%20o%20plomo https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=plata%20o%20... The only sane answer is to legalize, regulate, and tax all drugs. This needs to be followed by treating drug abuse/addiction as a health issue (not criminal).

DFHippie 4y ago
Perhaps, but that isn't a complete solution. I watched smuggled cigarettes being transferred from one semi to another when I was hitching around Spain back in the 90s (the Spanish guy driving the car told me this is what I was seeing). There was profit in crime still because there was profit in dodging the tax.
- jslaby 4y ago
  Probably not profit in the $100 millions though. This is when you start seeing brutal defense of those profits.. turf war, beheadings..
xrd 4y ago
It's interesting, that's what happened in Portland, right? It is really curious to think about the cartels as large startups. If you take that leap, it would be logical that they would be violently opposed to decriminalization. Like competing gangs would be killing people, and the cartels would be doing anything they can to convince the local government to redact that decision. I'm not saying I've got any evidence that cartels are committing crimes in places where drugs are legalized to change laws, but it is interesting that Portland crime has increased a lot. Many people will say that's because of liberal politicians. But there is other information that says that more policing almost never reduces crime directly. And the corollary is that reducing police, either by defunding or attrition, wouldn't cause increases in crime, right? If anyone has perspectives on what Portland did wrong, I'm interested in hearing it. It is really bizarre to me as a native Portlander that crime seems so excessive. I never felt unsafe in the prior forty years and things seem very different now. The only two big differences were the endless protests against police brutality and the legalization of drugs. Why did this crime surge increase so much in Portland?

miguelazo 4y ago

Just another reminder of the disaster that previous presidents left for AMLO. Mexico’s security situation has steadily deteriorated since Vicente Fox tried to impress his buddy GWB by pursuing the idiotic “kingpin strategy” of the gringos.

adl 4y ago
Do you really believe AMLO is different?
- miguelazo 4y ago
  In many respects, absolutely. And that is why the PRI and PAN have conspired with their cartel buddies and gringos to try to undermine him. I think he has made plenty of mistakes, but he’s at least more concerned with his country than getting rich and becoming a visiting lecturer at HKS.
  - SammyNameTaken 4y ago
    could it be that those “cartel buddies” were kicked out by the current cartel in power?
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      That's certainly a possibility. I haven't seen any evidence that the AMLO administration is actively collaborating with the cartels, but they have been quite open about not pursuing the failed strategies of the past, like working with the DEA: https://world.time.com/2014/01/14/dea-boosted-mexican-drug-cartel/ https://world.time.com/2014/01/14/dea-boosted-mexican-drug-c...

user3939382 4y ago

So long as the financial resources of the cartels is in the same neighborhood as Mexican law enforcement, nothing will solve this problem. I can’t believe that the US with its resources can have a border neighbor in this bad of shape without somehow being to blame at a national policy level.

Waterluvian 4y ago
Corruption at the levels seen in Mexico is a very, very hard thing to expel from a culture where it’s well-entrenched. Like trying to being democracy to other countries, no amount of resources and effort will work if the population fundamentally isn’t ready for it.
- thewarpaint 4y ago
  However, it was pretty easy for the US to topple democracies abroad regardless of the population’s opinions about it.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    Indeed it’s easier to destroy than to build.
notfunnyrando 4y ago
I think you misjudge the intentions of the US government. do you really think this is about stopping drugs? as far as I can tell what they really want is to sell guns (to cartels) and buy the best of the goods (good drugs for good parties?)
- user3939382 4y ago
  I presume every major national policy is fueled by corruption, pay to play, and enriching our politicians, their donors, or both.
ShredKazoo 4y ago

deterministic 4y ago

In Mexico, how do you know if a person is being paid by the cartels? That’s easy. If the cartels are not trying to assassinate the person then the answer is yes.

meowtimemania 4y ago

Does everywhere in the world have a drug problem a la US-Mexico? Why has it gotten so bad here but not elsewhere?

hulitu 4y ago

So Mexico is a state of US. If i do a crime in my country, another country cannot charge me with my crimes in my country because it has no jurisdiction.