4 ms·

Anecdotal, but dating apps sure helped crush the self-esteem of my sister. She still gets on them occasionally, because there's no alternative now. Guys in th

Anecdotal, but dating apps sure helped crush the self-esteem of my sister. She still gets on them occasionally, because there's no alternative now. Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
I don't think we need to go as far as to point fingers at MeToo for this. We have an entire generation of young adults who hit puberty after smartphones, social media and dating apps became standard. They might have never had to ask someone out in person, and going to a bar to meet someone would be the last place they think of. https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-heterosexual-us-couples/ https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-... To be fair I'm actually shocked by how high bars are on that chart, at least given my anecdotal experience.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Again, pure anecdata and possibly a lot of misatteibution, but 2017-ish seems to be some kind of inflection point. Even back in 2015 or so, it seemed that the overwhelming majority of people met IRL, whereas just a few years later everyone was meeting online. Might be a changing demographic thing (I was 22 in 2015, and 26 in 2019), but something definitely happened.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > We have an entire generation of young adults who hit puberty after smartphones It's unfair to blame #metoo, but it isn't unfair to blame a modern version of PC that expresses itself as puritanism. This is the least sex-having generation of all time. They're afraid that saying the wrong thing to each other is genocide or rape, especially the wrong sexual thing.
  - quacked 4y ago
    It's actually become more bimodal when it comes to approaching women, or at least this was accurate between 2013-2020: There are largely two groups of men--sexual outlaws and polite society. Sexual outlaws (star athletes, musicians, drug dealers, frat boys, etc.) are expected to behave outrageously and thus won't be overly chastised for making outrageous propositions, whereas an otherwise polite society member can be blasted for coming across as inappropriate in the wrong scenario. It doesn't necessarily line up with who's attractive and who's unattractive, either. It reminds me of the Solzhenitsyn quote about knives. If a criminal is caught with a knife he doesn't know any better, it's his tradition. But if you're caught with a knife, this is a serious crime, and you must be harshly punished.
itake 4y ago
Guys also just don't want to go to bars. Even in my 20s, "going out" always felt like a chore that I had to do to find a partner. Approaching girls in public has high social consequences. I've read enough reddit [0][1][2] or seen enough news articles about people banned from businesses because a guy was seen as creepy. Men need to learn what is ok and not ok when communicating with women. This is already an challenge because what is ok with one woman is not ok with another. Add in the shifting society view of what is appropriate turns it into an impossible task. It just seems safer to do nothing and wait for the girl to make the first move.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Approaching girls in public has high social consequences. My read on it is that, like cold calling and door-to-door sales, this is a skill. You can be naturally good at it, you can develop it, or you can be self-aware that you suck at it and do something else. As someone who has met all his partners in places other than bars/tinder and without any dramatic public approaches like what you're describing I would say that it's important to keep in mind that there are plenty of ways you will meet people. Obsessing over the ways that you won't meet people is counterproductive.
  - itake 4y ago
    I get it’s a skill you need to develop, but women and society are not forgiving to low skill people. If you mess up, you could lose your job, kicked out of your social safety net, or lose access to your favorite business.
- berjin 4y ago
  Creepy just means unattractive
- CadmiumYellow 4y ago
  > It just seems safer to do nothing and wait for the girl to make the first move. For the most part girls will not do this. Any woman who has ever dated men eventually learns that if a man is interested he'll make it known and if you have to chase him he's not interested. For that reason most eventually give up on making the first move because those situations never go anywhere, whereas when men make the first move they do. It's not necessarily fair but it's the typical dynamic so waiting around for girls to make the first move is very unlikely to work out in your favor. Also, the thing about men being creepy for approaching is very overblown online. In real life as long as you're pleasant and polite and willing to take no for an answer most women will be happy and gracious if you approach them. Go for it!
tayo42 4y ago
Bars were always terrible for meeting people. Idk anyone having success there. If it did work, I don't think apps would have taken off
- rationalist 4y ago
  Bars seem like a more expensive "pay to play" than apps in my opinion.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to. Bars were not a good place to find dates decades ago either. That’s more of a tired movie trope. The bigger issue is that people just don’t seem to get out and do things as much as they did in the time before we all had unlimited entertainment options at our fingertips from the comfort of home. As soon as you do break the cycle and start doing activities in the real world, you discover that there are a lot of interesting people just a few degrees outside of your friend groups and activities.
- uoaei 4y ago
  Local meetups and hobbyist clubs of various sorts are full of interesting people who are already interested in some of the same things that you are. This brings down a huge barrier of getting to know someone: you've broken the ice merely by having an interest in a certain subject. This is why people advocate to have hobbies (i.e., not-monetized ways to spend your time) outside of work, or at the very least a "third place" where you can meet new people in low-friction ways.
- alar44 4y ago
  [dead]
MengerSponge 4y ago
The way they used to??? Jesus H. Christ were they approaching women at bars with their genitals outside their pants? Because that's what #MeToo was about. You can still ask to buy a stranger a drink. You're allowed start a conversation with someone you find attractive. But it's long odds. It's much better to do something with a group: join a choir, go to yoga class, take art or cooking classes, etc. It's a win-win too, because you won't meet someone right off, and while you're building that community you still get to sing/exercise/create/eat.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago

I don't think we need to go as far as to point fingers at MeToo for this. We have an entire generation of young adults who hit puberty after smartphones, social media and dating apps became standard. They might have never had to ask someone out in person, and going to a bar to meet someone would be the last place they think of. https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-heterosexual-us-couples/ https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-... To be fair I'm actually shocked by how high bars are on that chart, at least given my anecdotal experience.

AussieWog93 4y ago
Again, pure anecdata and possibly a lot of misatteibution, but 2017-ish seems to be some kind of inflection point. Even back in 2015 or so, it seemed that the overwhelming majority of people met IRL, whereas just a few years later everyone was meeting online. Might be a changing demographic thing (I was 22 in 2015, and 26 in 2019), but something definitely happened.
pessimizer 4y ago
> We have an entire generation of young adults who hit puberty after smartphones It's unfair to blame #metoo, but it isn't unfair to blame a modern version of PC that expresses itself as puritanism. This is the least sex-having generation of all time. They're afraid that saying the wrong thing to each other is genocide or rape, especially the wrong sexual thing.
- quacked 4y ago
  It's actually become more bimodal when it comes to approaching women, or at least this was accurate between 2013-2020: There are largely two groups of men--sexual outlaws and polite society. Sexual outlaws (star athletes, musicians, drug dealers, frat boys, etc.) are expected to behave outrageously and thus won't be overly chastised for making outrageous propositions, whereas an otherwise polite society member can be blasted for coming across as inappropriate in the wrong scenario. It doesn't necessarily line up with who's attractive and who's unattractive, either. It reminds me of the Solzhenitsyn quote about knives. If a criminal is caught with a knife he doesn't know any better, it's his tradition. But if you're caught with a knife, this is a serious crime, and you must be harshly punished.

itake 4y ago

Guys also just don't want to go to bars. Even in my 20s, "going out" always felt like a chore that I had to do to find a partner. Approaching girls in public has high social consequences. I've read enough reddit [0][1][2] or seen enough news articles about people banned from businesses because a guy was seen as creepy. Men need to learn what is ok and not ok when communicating with women. This is already an challenge because what is ok with one woman is not ok with another. Add in the shifting society view of what is appropriate turns it into an impossible task. It just seems safer to do nothing and wait for the girl to make the first move.

AlexandrB 4y ago
> Approaching girls in public has high social consequences. My read on it is that, like cold calling and door-to-door sales, this is a skill. You can be naturally good at it, you can develop it, or you can be self-aware that you suck at it and do something else. As someone who has met all his partners in places other than bars/tinder and without any dramatic public approaches like what you're describing I would say that it's important to keep in mind that there are plenty of ways you will meet people. Obsessing over the ways that you won't meet people is counterproductive.
- itake 4y ago
  I get it’s a skill you need to develop, but women and society are not forgiving to low skill people. If you mess up, you could lose your job, kicked out of your social safety net, or lose access to your favorite business.
berjin 4y ago
Creepy just means unattractive
CadmiumYellow 4y ago
> It just seems safer to do nothing and wait for the girl to make the first move. For the most part girls will not do this. Any woman who has ever dated men eventually learns that if a man is interested he'll make it known and if you have to chase him he's not interested. For that reason most eventually give up on making the first move because those situations never go anywhere, whereas when men make the first move they do. It's not necessarily fair but it's the typical dynamic so waiting around for girls to make the first move is very unlikely to work out in your favor. Also, the thing about men being creepy for approaching is very overblown online. In real life as long as you're pleasant and polite and willing to take no for an answer most women will be happy and gracious if you approach them. Go for it!

tayo42 4y ago

Bars were always terrible for meeting people. Idk anyone having success there. If it did work, I don't think apps would have taken off

rationalist 4y ago
Bars seem like a more expensive "pay to play" than apps in my opinion.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to. Bars were not a good place to find dates decades ago either. That’s more of a tired movie trope. The bigger issue is that people just don’t seem to get out and do things as much as they did in the time before we all had unlimited entertainment options at our fingertips from the comfort of home. As soon as you do break the cycle and start doing activities in the real world, you discover that there are a lot of interesting people just a few degrees outside of your friend groups and activities.

uoaei 4y ago
Local meetups and hobbyist clubs of various sorts are full of interesting people who are already interested in some of the same things that you are. This brings down a huge barrier of getting to know someone: you've broken the ice merely by having an interest in a certain subject. This is why people advocate to have hobbies (i.e., not-monetized ways to spend your time) outside of work, or at the very least a "third place" where you can meet new people in low-friction ways.
alar44 4y ago
[dead]

MengerSponge 4y ago

The way they used to??? Jesus H. Christ were they approaching women at bars with their genitals outside their pants? Because that's what #MeToo was about. You can still ask to buy a stranger a drink. You're allowed start a conversation with someone you find attractive. But it's long odds. It's much better to do something with a group: join a choir, go to yoga class, take art or cooking classes, etc. It's a win-win too, because you won't meet someone right off, and while you're building that community you still get to sing/exercise/create/eat.