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Those stimulus checks from March 2021 have some amazing longevity. And watching the elastic effects target thisThe particular commodity disproportionately way

by steego 4y ago

Those stimulus checks from March 2021 have some amazing longevity. And watching the elastic effects target thisThe particular commodity disproportionately way has been a big eye opening.

scythe 4y ago
The stimulus checks were only a fraction of the monetary stimulus. The PPP loans and DPA mandates along with subsidies on care and prevention (e.g. vaccines) also constitute expansionary monetary policy.
- mindslight 4y ago
  I assume that if questioners kept at it for a few more rounds, we might finally get to the point where you include the trillions handed to Wall Street via corporate bailouts, QE, and artificially low interest rates - continuing the policy that's been going on for decades? It's appalling how economic critiques always tend to be aimed at the smallest actors on the realpolitik checkers board, while the big grift carries on generally unimpeded. I'm a firm believer in Austrian economics, but with no political representation beyond "fiscal responsibility" kayfabe from the Rethuglicans, Modern Monetary Theory is looking like the best path forward. If we're going to insist on overwhelming monetary creation to wipe out the strong deflationary force of technology, it might as well get purposefully spent on productive endeavors rather than continually dumped into Potemkin financial markets.
  - scythe 4y ago
    >we might finally get to the point where you include I typed that comment out in the roughly 20 seconds between moving plastic blocks around while assessing the performance of some equipment. In so doing, I named the first things that came to mind. Among those things, PPP loans infamously went to many employers who used them for things other than actually making payroll, becoming a target of populist criticism. Hardly a case of blaming the little guy. It's appalling how quickly HN assumes bad faith these days. Anyway, QE was mostly pre-Covid, so while we might blame it for broad inflationary trends, it's incongruous when looking at short-term trends in egg prices.
    - mindslight 4y ago
      Sure, the general problem I'm bemoaning is that the "first things that come to mind" always seem to be the tangible actions aimed at mitigating the distributed fallout from economic central planning, rather than ever putting the brakes on the overwhelming corporate welfare causing most of the damage to begin with. The Fed engaged in additional QE as a direct response to Covid. Fraudulent PPP "loans", while despicable, are much closer to the little guy than QE, artifically low interest rates, and even open pondering of the central bank buying stocks. As for bad faith - the dynamic is like saying one wants small government, and then attacking the Postal Service or the National Parks. Invoking the general argument to draw ire, and then directing that attention at things besides the overwhelming systemic problems burns up the energy of the original critique and is at the very least echoing people who are arguing in bad faith.
      - scythe 4y ago
        >Invoking the general argument to draw ire, I did not invoke the general argument. What I was intending to do was to point out that the stimulus checks were only a small fraction of expansionary monetary policy during COVID. >and then directing that attention at things besides the overwhelming systemic problems The examples I gave were intended to demonstrate the general point referenced above, and not to be exhaustive. >very least echoing people who are arguing in bad faith. I was refuting a bad-faith argument from the people you are complaining about. The conventional line is that the stimulus checks were a primary driver of inflation. I explained why that is not true. You accuse me of "echoing" that argument. This is ridiculous. >Fraudulent PPP "loans", while despicable, are much closer to the little guy than QE If I'm going to entertain this line of reasoning, shouldn't we at least consider that the Fed bought distressed loans at the same time that many landlords may have been pushed towards default, and foreclosure sales prevented, due to the eviction moratorium? That may be closer to the little guy than it seems at first.

by steego 4y ago

Those stimulus checks from March 2021 have some amazing longevity. And watching the elastic effects target thisThe particular commodity disproportionately way has been a big eye opening.

scythe 4y ago

The stimulus checks were only a fraction of the monetary stimulus. The PPP loans and DPA mandates along with subsidies on care and prevention (e.g. vaccines) also constitute expansionary monetary policy.

mindslight 4y ago
I assume that if questioners kept at it for a few more rounds, we might finally get to the point where you include the trillions handed to Wall Street via corporate bailouts, QE, and artificially low interest rates - continuing the policy that's been going on for decades? It's appalling how economic critiques always tend to be aimed at the smallest actors on the realpolitik checkers board, while the big grift carries on generally unimpeded. I'm a firm believer in Austrian economics, but with no political representation beyond "fiscal responsibility" kayfabe from the Rethuglicans, Modern Monetary Theory is looking like the best path forward. If we're going to insist on overwhelming monetary creation to wipe out the strong deflationary force of technology, it might as well get purposefully spent on productive endeavors rather than continually dumped into Potemkin financial markets.
- scythe 4y ago
  >we might finally get to the point where you include I typed that comment out in the roughly 20 seconds between moving plastic blocks around while assessing the performance of some equipment. In so doing, I named the first things that came to mind. Among those things, PPP loans infamously went to many employers who used them for things other than actually making payroll, becoming a target of populist criticism. Hardly a case of blaming the little guy. It's appalling how quickly HN assumes bad faith these days. Anyway, QE was mostly pre-Covid, so while we might blame it for broad inflationary trends, it's incongruous when looking at short-term trends in egg prices.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Sure, the general problem I'm bemoaning is that the "first things that come to mind" always seem to be the tangible actions aimed at mitigating the distributed fallout from economic central planning, rather than ever putting the brakes on the overwhelming corporate welfare causing most of the damage to begin with. The Fed engaged in additional QE as a direct response to Covid. Fraudulent PPP "loans", while despicable, are much closer to the little guy than QE, artifically low interest rates, and even open pondering of the central bank buying stocks. As for bad faith - the dynamic is like saying one wants small government, and then attacking the Postal Service or the National Parks. Invoking the general argument to draw ire, and then directing that attention at things besides the overwhelming systemic problems burns up the energy of the original critique and is at the very least echoing people who are arguing in bad faith.
    - scythe 4y ago
      >Invoking the general argument to draw ire, I did not invoke the general argument. What I was intending to do was to point out that the stimulus checks were only a small fraction of expansionary monetary policy during COVID. >and then directing that attention at things besides the overwhelming systemic problems The examples I gave were intended to demonstrate the general point referenced above, and not to be exhaustive. >very least echoing people who are arguing in bad faith. I was refuting a bad-faith argument from the people you are complaining about. The conventional line is that the stimulus checks were a primary driver of inflation. I explained why that is not true. You accuse me of "echoing" that argument. This is ridiculous. >Fraudulent PPP "loans", while despicable, are much closer to the little guy than QE If I'm going to entertain this line of reasoning, shouldn't we at least consider that the Fed bought distressed loans at the same time that many landlords may have been pushed towards default, and foreclosure sales prevented, due to the eviction moratorium? That may be closer to the little guy than it seems at first.