4 ms·

there’s always somebody yelling fraud look at herbal life as an example or amway

Apocryphon 4y ago
Aren't those clearly frauds for the people participating, but as businesses they're just somehow structured in a way to be sound investments for those on the outside?
- nyrulez 4y ago
  If those were frauds, there would be ton of lawsuits by now given their history. It may or may not be immoral for participants, but illegality is a much higher bar.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    I mean, they might just be a class of frauds that are currently legal thanks to lack of will to close a particular loophole that permits their existence. And it's not as if they don't receive legal penalties all the time: https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/herbalife/ https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/herbalife/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hanrahan.htm https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hanrahan.htm
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rnk 4y ago
    This sub-thread is very amusing. All you people saying if it was fraud there would be lawsuits. Guess what, there are tons of lawsuits against these companies and also settlements. And vc doesn't care! Look at the genius. Look at WeWork and Adam Neumann. Many people saw it was impossible to make money and meet their valuation.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      This and small time fraud does not even make it to a police report..
  - akiselev 4y ago
    There were. Lots of them. So much so that both Herbalife and Amway have been under numerous consent decrees with the US government for decades [1][2]. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2016/07/herbalife-will-restructure-its-multi-level-marketing-operations-pay-200-million-consumer-redress https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2016/07/... [2] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-23/html/94-6730.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-23/html/94-67...
- sqeaky 4y ago
  They are, and that's the joke.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
    Sadly, real people say stuff like that seriously. Without anything else to go on it would be unwise to assume the authors beliefs. /s is a helpful way to show that one is being sarcastic and not a serious ignoramus during online discussions that lack other communication channels like body language or inflection.
    - sqeaky 4y ago
      I agree. At least 1 person in this thread got it wrong and it could have been me.

Aren't those clearly frauds for the people participating, but as businesses they're just somehow structured in a way to be sound investments for those on the outside?

nyrulez 4y ago
If those were frauds, there would be ton of lawsuits by now given their history. It may or may not be immoral for participants, but illegality is a much higher bar.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I mean, they might just be a class of frauds that are currently legal thanks to lack of will to close a particular loophole that permits their existence. And it's not as if they don't receive legal penalties all the time: https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/herbalife/ https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/herbalife/ https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hanrahan.htm https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hanrahan.htm
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rnk 4y ago
  This sub-thread is very amusing. All you people saying if it was fraud there would be lawsuits. Guess what, there are tons of lawsuits against these companies and also settlements. And vc doesn't care! Look at the genius. Look at WeWork and Adam Neumann. Many people saw it was impossible to make money and meet their valuation.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    This and small time fraud does not even make it to a police report..
- akiselev 4y ago
  There were. Lots of them. So much so that both Herbalife and Amway have been under numerous consent decrees with the US government for decades [1][2]. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2016/07/herbalife-will-restructure-its-multi-level-marketing-operations-pay-200-million-consumer-redress https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2016/07/... [2] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-23/html/94-6730.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1994-03-23/html/94-67...
sqeaky 4y ago
They are, and that's the joke.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  Sadly, real people say stuff like that seriously. Without anything else to go on it would be unwise to assume the authors beliefs. /s is a helpful way to show that one is being sarcastic and not a serious ignoramus during online discussions that lack other communication channels like body language or inflection.
  - sqeaky 4y ago
    I agree. At least 1 person in this thread got it wrong and it could have been me.