4 ms·

VAT evasion is not something you'd expect a large company to get in trouble for. Either the government is wrong or Meta really messed up?

gizmo 4y ago
EU countries bicker about VAT like schoolchildren. When Italy says VAT is due it might mean FB has been negligent, but it probably means FB made a deal with another EU country (Ireland perhaps) and paid a lower amount of VAT over there.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  That's not how VAT works… the customer's local VAT rate is the one that is used, not the merchant's.
  - gizmo 4y ago
    No, the EU has astonishingly childish VAT rules that specify which country is owed VAT at which rate for all sorts of edge cases, like an online purchase made from a train heading across a border. The vendor, the customer, and the train can represent up to four different countries, each of which can argue they are owed VAT.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
      There are some exceptions but they're slowly being removed, and I don't think they would cover Meta whose business is entirely digital services?
imiric 4y ago
You phrased that nicely. :) Large companies indeed usually don't get in trouble for tax evasion, but they are certainly the ones more often committing it. They don't call it "evasion", of course, but more like "tax minimization", or "using every legal loophole possible known to our army of lawyers". The only thing Meta messed up is maybe not being up-to-date with some obscure legal gotcha in Italy, and even so, the fine will just be the cost of doing business.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > The only thing Meta messed up is maybe not being up-to-date with some obscure legal gotcha in Italy Or there's some intentional vague wording so that some politician can get "a big win" and their polls up by going after an unpopular "evil foreign tech giant". If you can't innovate, regulate!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  Well, they are good at tax avoidance, but tax evasion is not something they are usually up to.
mfontani 4y ago
If you have a $100 debt with the bank, you're in trouble. If you have a $100M debt with the bank, the bank's in trouble. s/bank/government/g
- SahAssar 4y ago
  That's not at all the same thing. Banks loan you money with the expectation of return (interest). Governments build a country that is conducive to economic activity and take some of that economic activity in taxes to fund its activities. In one situation a party has taken on risk for the expectation of future profit for itself. In the other a party has invested to stimulate activity beneficial to a larger group. They might seem superficially similar but I don't think you can compare them that easily.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  Banks can’t put you in jail.

gizmo 4y ago

EU countries bicker about VAT like schoolchildren. When Italy says VAT is due it might mean FB has been negligent, but it probably means FB made a deal with another EU country (Ireland perhaps) and paid a lower amount of VAT over there.

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
That's not how VAT works… the customer's local VAT rate is the one that is used, not the merchant's.
- gizmo 4y ago
  No, the EU has astonishingly childish VAT rules that specify which country is owed VAT at which rate for all sorts of edge cases, like an online purchase made from a train heading across a border. The vendor, the customer, and the train can represent up to four different countries, each of which can argue they are owed VAT.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
    There are some exceptions but they're slowly being removed, and I don't think they would cover Meta whose business is entirely digital services?

imiric 4y ago

You phrased that nicely. :) Large companies indeed usually don't get in trouble for tax evasion, but they are certainly the ones more often committing it. They don't call it "evasion", of course, but more like "tax minimization", or "using every legal loophole possible known to our army of lawyers". The only thing Meta messed up is maybe not being up-to-date with some obscure legal gotcha in Italy, and even so, the fine will just be the cost of doing business.

908B64B197 4y ago
> The only thing Meta messed up is maybe not being up-to-date with some obscure legal gotcha in Italy Or there's some intentional vague wording so that some politician can get "a big win" and their polls up by going after an unpopular "evil foreign tech giant". If you can't innovate, regulate!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
Well, they are good at tax avoidance, but tax evasion is not something they are usually up to.

mfontani 4y ago

If you have a $100 debt with the bank, you're in trouble. If you have a $100M debt with the bank, the bank's in trouble. s/bank/government/g

SahAssar 4y ago
That's not at all the same thing. Banks loan you money with the expectation of return (interest). Governments build a country that is conducive to economic activity and take some of that economic activity in taxes to fund its activities. In one situation a party has taken on risk for the expectation of future profit for itself. In the other a party has invested to stimulate activity beneficial to a larger group. They might seem superficially similar but I don't think you can compare them that easily.
mr_toad 4y ago
Banks can’t put you in jail.