4 ms·

Could you explain this a bit more please? It appears you are saying an employee negotiating for a better salary is a gross and extortion mentality? If so I ha

Could you explain this a bit more please? It appears you are saying an employee negotiating for a better salary is a gross and extortion mentality? If so I have to say I 100% disagree with you. Negotiating is one of the last tools workers have left. Would you say a company offering to hire someone for x more than they are currently making is a gross and extortion mentality too?

uoaei 4y ago
That last point is key. To imagine that such power plays only occur in one direction, or that somehow workers have more power when exercising such behaviors vs when companies do so, is poor rhetoric and poorer argumentation.
latchkey 4y ago
> It appears you are saying an employee negotiating for a better salary is a gross and extortion mentality? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that using that tactic to negotiate a higher salary, is gross. I'm saying that I'd never hire someone who said that to me. There are far better ways to negotiate than demanding higher salary because you're doing fake interviews at Meta and they offer you such.
- keneda7 4y ago
  Okay that makes a lot more sense. Based on your response, your argument is more about the way/method they are negotiating with the employer not the act of negotiating itself. My previous comment had asked this also: Is it okay for a company to offer and employee more than they are making at another company or is that a gross and extortion mentality as well? In my eyes employees are paid based on their worth to a company. If company x says I am worth more than company y, but I like working at company y more, is it gross and wrong for me to say "hey company y I really love working for you but I think my labor is worth more than you are paying me. For example company x has offered me more money of the same job responsibility."? I in no way have a extortion mentality. Rather I believe I am being under compensated for the work I do and to show this I have gotten quotes for what my skills are worth to other companies in the field. I would equate the above to shopping around for quotes for a home upgrade. Typically people want to get multiple quotes to see what the fair market value of the work is.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  > I'm saying that I'd never hire someone who said that to me. That's laudable, because you're filtering out the idiots. Nobody in their right mind would say that to you. People would say stuff like "I have two offers currently, one from Facebook and another from Acme. They are both very generous but in terms of preference, I would love to work here if the company is able to match them." That's it. And that's fine. That's what most people are doing during their job search (get multiple offers). Nobody goes on to say that they intentionally interviewed at some company they'll never work for in order to get a higher offer to be used as leverage. Why would anyone self-sabotage themselves like that?
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > Nobody goes on to say that they intentionally interviewed at some company they'll never work for in order to get a higher offer to be used as leverage. Of course they wouldn't, however it is super easy to see right through what they are doing.
    - p0pcult 4y ago
      So then it isn't the language they are using, or the way they are presenting it, but instead the negotiation itself.
      - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
        I'm getting the same vibe here. I've had this happen to me before, when I interviewed for a smaller company, and they were literally offended that their offer wasn't the only one on the table. When I told them I already have two offers, the hiring manager very politely scolded me about it, saying that they prefer candidates who apply to their company and their company only. I usually find this type of exceptionalism very amusing and had no shame in sharing my feeling with the guy. For the past couple of years, I noticed this trend of trying to fuck over prospective employees and drive down compensation. Of course, we can't forget the no poaching cartel for which large companies got a nice slap of the wrist, but it's the small things like: - rejecting candidates with competing offers (like OP above) - not providing offers in writing (so that it would be hard to use a verbal offer in a negotiation) - requesting written proof of competing offers or paystubs to prove current income. - prolonging or spreading the interview process over weeks/months so that you're not able to coordinate negotiations (Google is a major offender here).

uoaei 4y ago

That last point is key. To imagine that such power plays only occur in one direction, or that somehow workers have more power when exercising such behaviors vs when companies do so, is poor rhetoric and poorer argumentation.

latchkey 4y ago

> It appears you are saying an employee negotiating for a better salary is a gross and extortion mentality? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that using that tactic to negotiate a higher salary, is gross. I'm saying that I'd never hire someone who said that to me. There are far better ways to negotiate than demanding higher salary because you're doing fake interviews at Meta and they offer you such.

keneda7 4y ago
Okay that makes a lot more sense. Based on your response, your argument is more about the way/method they are negotiating with the employer not the act of negotiating itself. My previous comment had asked this also: Is it okay for a company to offer and employee more than they are making at another company or is that a gross and extortion mentality as well? In my eyes employees are paid based on their worth to a company. If company x says I am worth more than company y, but I like working at company y more, is it gross and wrong for me to say "hey company y I really love working for you but I think my labor is worth more than you are paying me. For example company x has offered me more money of the same job responsibility."? I in no way have a extortion mentality. Rather I believe I am being under compensated for the work I do and to show this I have gotten quotes for what my skills are worth to other companies in the field. I would equate the above to shopping around for quotes for a home upgrade. Typically people want to get multiple quotes to see what the fair market value of the work is.
maximinus_thrax 4y ago
> I'm saying that I'd never hire someone who said that to me. That's laudable, because you're filtering out the idiots. Nobody in their right mind would say that to you. People would say stuff like "I have two offers currently, one from Facebook and another from Acme. They are both very generous but in terms of preference, I would love to work here if the company is able to match them." That's it. And that's fine. That's what most people are doing during their job search (get multiple offers). Nobody goes on to say that they intentionally interviewed at some company they'll never work for in order to get a higher offer to be used as leverage. Why would anyone self-sabotage themselves like that?
- latchkey 4y ago
  > Nobody goes on to say that they intentionally interviewed at some company they'll never work for in order to get a higher offer to be used as leverage. Of course they wouldn't, however it is super easy to see right through what they are doing.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    So then it isn't the language they are using, or the way they are presenting it, but instead the negotiation itself.
    - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
      I'm getting the same vibe here. I've had this happen to me before, when I interviewed for a smaller company, and they were literally offended that their offer wasn't the only one on the table. When I told them I already have two offers, the hiring manager very politely scolded me about it, saying that they prefer candidates who apply to their company and their company only. I usually find this type of exceptionalism very amusing and had no shame in sharing my feeling with the guy. For the past couple of years, I noticed this trend of trying to fuck over prospective employees and drive down compensation. Of course, we can't forget the no poaching cartel for which large companies got a nice slap of the wrist, but it's the small things like: - rejecting candidates with competing offers (like OP above) - not providing offers in writing (so that it would be hard to use a verbal offer in a negotiation) - requesting written proof of competing offers or paystubs to prove current income. - prolonging or spreading the interview process over weeks/months so that you're not able to coordinate negotiations (Google is a major offender here).