4 ms·

Good article. The entry for "Traditional" seems closest to correct.

klodolph 4y ago
Those definitions generally exclude works by Duchamp and many other modern artists which do not fit into the narrow traditional definitions of art. (There are some overbroad traditional definitions, I don't think you're talking about those.) Just to give some wider social context--the backlash against modern art is something of a right-wing talking point, and it has been for nearly a hundred years if not longer, for complicated reasons that would fill an entire book. These days I see those definitions the most in those Twitter accounts with ancient roman/greek sculpture as their profile pictures, which post about the decline of society and how modern art is bad, classical art is good. I like modern art. You may not like it, but it seems weird and distasteful to reach for a definition of "art" that excludes things you don't like.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  > the backlash against modern art is something of a right-wing talking point, and it has been for nearly a hundred years if not longer You are most definitely blaming the wrong axis of the political compass. Preference for or opposition to modern art has no political leaning and varies widely between people of all political stripes. Modern art has been notably suppressed by authoritarian regimes[0] however but this is not due to their politics, rather it's entirely due to their personal opinions which become law in a dictatorial government. More evidence against your claim also comes from the fact that was mentioned in this thread that the CIA, who by most measures would be traditionally considered right wing, promoted modern art as a propaganda weapon against America's enemies[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism [1] https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artcurious-cia-art-excerpt-1909623 https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artcurious-cia-art-excerpt...
  - klodolph 4y ago
    Again, there's a whole book that you could write about this topic, and a single comment in an HN thread is not going to do it justice, not even in summary. The CIA may act as an agent for implementing right-wing policies, but if you're trying to explain CIA behavior, you would use a variety of both ideological and pragmatic explanations. Anti-modern art movements have close ideological ties with fascism and authoritarian beliefs, which can be far-left or far-right.
    - throwaway4aday 4y ago
      We should just change the definition of art to anything that people argue about.
      - klodolph 4y ago
        Most topics in philosophy. Any time we attempt to define what a word means, we use other words to do it, and a big chunk of philosophy is spent dealing with the bottom of that mess. What is "real", what is "knowledge", what is "intelligence", what is "art", etc.

Those definitions generally exclude works by Duchamp and many other modern artists which do not fit into the narrow traditional definitions of art. (There are some overbroad traditional definitions, I don't think you're talking about those.) Just to give some wider social context--the backlash against modern art is something of a right-wing talking point, and it has been for nearly a hundred years if not longer, for complicated reasons that would fill an entire book. These days I see those definitions the most in those Twitter accounts with ancient roman/greek sculpture as their profile pictures, which post about the decline of society and how modern art is bad, classical art is good. I like modern art. You may not like it, but it seems weird and distasteful to reach for a definition of "art" that excludes things you don't like.

throwaway4aday 4y ago
> the backlash against modern art is something of a right-wing talking point, and it has been for nearly a hundred years if not longer You are most definitely blaming the wrong axis of the political compass. Preference for or opposition to modern art has no political leaning and varies widely between people of all political stripes. Modern art has been notably suppressed by authoritarian regimes[0] however but this is not due to their politics, rather it's entirely due to their personal opinions which become law in a dictatorial government. More evidence against your claim also comes from the fact that was mentioned in this thread that the CIA, who by most measures would be traditionally considered right wing, promoted modern art as a propaganda weapon against America's enemies[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism [1] https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artcurious-cia-art-excerpt-1909623 https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artcurious-cia-art-excerpt...
- klodolph 4y ago
  Again, there's a whole book that you could write about this topic, and a single comment in an HN thread is not going to do it justice, not even in summary. The CIA may act as an agent for implementing right-wing policies, but if you're trying to explain CIA behavior, you would use a variety of both ideological and pragmatic explanations. Anti-modern art movements have close ideological ties with fascism and authoritarian beliefs, which can be far-left or far-right.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    We should just change the definition of art to anything that people argue about.
    - klodolph 4y ago
      Most topics in philosophy. Any time we attempt to define what a word means, we use other words to do it, and a big chunk of philosophy is spent dealing with the bottom of that mess. What is "real", what is "knowledge", what is "intelligence", what is "art", etc.