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Wife and I were just talking about the idea a few days ago. Swapping the entire big battery of a car seems like a big ask, and opens up issues of "swapping a b

Wife and I were just talking about the idea a few days ago. Swapping the entire big battery of a car seems like a big ask, and opens up issues of "swapping a brand new battery to an highly used one" etc. What I would rather like is an extendable range in EVs. Sell me a 100KM range car that I will use as-is most of the year. When I go on trips, I'd like to be able to stop the car somewhere, toss it a couple of battery modules (like filling up gas), and that should equip me to drive until next such stop in two or three hours. At the end of my trip, I could simply return the battery modules for a refund of deposit.

jvm___ 4y ago
All those sci-fi stories where they have to go find, buy or trade some alien species for more fuel for their ship finally come true. Picturing a small keg battery with a handle on top that has LED's on it. You insert and twist into the spot on your car to fuel it up.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deelowe 4y ago
I think it would be easier to simply get EVs to the point where they have over 300mi of range on a charge and build out quick charge infrastructure. Waiting 20-30 minutes to quick charge after close to 300 miles of driving doesn't really seem that big of a headache to me. That's basically equivalent to stopping for food, gas, and a bathroom break which I'd do on long trips anyways.
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  Make it a destination, like Buc-ee's in Texas: https://sbj.net/uploads/original/20220125-114518-Bucees.jpg https://sbj.net/uploads/original/20220125-114518-Bucees.jpg
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  The charge stations just need a bathroom and maybe some vending machines and a waiting area. Fancier ones can be more like the big road trip gas stations you sometimes run into
- fr0sty 4y ago
  I'd love to find a good number on the daily mileage of the median passenger car in the US. The average looks to be around 30-35mi/day but the median is probably a small fraction of that. Why would you want your battery pack to be 10x oversized for your typical day? I think a more efficient solution would be series-hybrids with small onboard generators for range extension. Minimize weight/cost of the battery pack while maintaining the ability to drive cross-country without frequent charging stops.
  - lastLinkedList 4y ago
    One of the economies of battery scale is durability, no? What you gain in cost savings up front you lose by needing to replace the batteries more frequently than N times the larger battery pack size.
  - deelowe 4y ago
    My understanding is that hybrids are more costly than simply putting in a larger pack. It's certainly an order of magnitude more complex.
    - fr0sty 4y ago
      PHEVs are certainly more complex, but a series hybrid like the BMW i3 only involves finding space for a small genset and some additional control software/electronics. I'm having trouble finding good numbers but this[0] article says the option added only ~$4k to the price. [0] https://insideevs.com/news/317236/first-bmw-i3-electric-car-test-ride-23-gallon-range-extender-option-to-cost-about-4000/ https://insideevs.com/news/317236/first-bmw-i3-electric-car-...
- cptskippy 4y ago
  That's pretty much how road trips in a Tesla play out today. After depleting the battery you want to get out and stretch your legs, use the bathroom, and get a snack. Most fast chargers are located near or at amenities. This is how it should be. I could see rest stops on the highway being outfitted with fast chargers in the future.
  - deelowe 4y ago
    Only issue is that rest stops kind of suck for resting. :-)
    - cptskippy 4y ago
      The ones in Arizona are pretty horrific but Georgia's are pretty decent.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  That's nice for you that your 20 minute poop breaks are enough time to charge your car. On the other hand, every time I have traveled by car between the bay area and LA (~400 miles, 5-6 hours one way) , I/we never* made any stops longer than 10 minutes. *I say never, but there have actually been a couple times when I set out not well rested and on the return leg I needed to stop in the middle somewhere to catch some shut eye. But the vast majority of trips are on the road the entire time except one stop for 5 minutes to fill gas and empty bladder.
AlanSE 4y ago
Some form of this thought is irresistible, but we shouldn't hesitate to point out the obvious flaws. You load up your car with more people and more stuff when you go on a trip, and more batteries would add MORE load on the frame. This doesn't work. Ideally, you would add another axle. Suspend disbelief and follow that thought to its logical conclusion. You have almost certainly PLANNED your trip. You know what time you will depart, and the trip may take 4 to 10 hours, done in a single day. Additionally, you will spend 30 minutes packing your car, and more space is a premium. Keep following me, just a little bit longer.. The day before you depart at, say 3pm, a worker from an established car rental service pulls up in front of your house and parks on your street. They unhitch a trailer from their car, do some technical checks, and are gone in 5 minutes. You arrive home from work, and have a trailer that will add 400 miles of range to your car and offer extra packing space (for things). You pack up the trailer & car and go to bed. In the morning, as you pull out, you get out and hook up the trailer. Depending on your trip, you may charge up the car & trailer once, or not at all. I'm guessing that it will be able to connect two chargers at once. This seems like not-a-bad-idea, and compatible with current infrastructure. While it incurs a cost, and requires EVs to be built for the purpose, it's a much more minor change than battery swapping. The cost could be quite small compared to the other solutions for the same problem, and it frankly sounds more direct.

jvm___ 4y ago

All those sci-fi stories where they have to go find, buy or trade some alien species for more fuel for their ship finally come true. Picturing a small keg battery with a handle on top that has LED's on it. You insert and twist into the spot on your car to fuel it up.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deelowe 4y ago

I think it would be easier to simply get EVs to the point where they have over 300mi of range on a charge and build out quick charge infrastructure. Waiting 20-30 minutes to quick charge after close to 300 miles of driving doesn't really seem that big of a headache to me. That's basically equivalent to stopping for food, gas, and a bathroom break which I'd do on long trips anyways.

Tempest1981 4y ago
Make it a destination, like Buc-ee's in Texas: https://sbj.net/uploads/original/20220125-114518-Bucees.jpg https://sbj.net/uploads/original/20220125-114518-Bucees.jpg
coffeebeqn 4y ago
The charge stations just need a bathroom and maybe some vending machines and a waiting area. Fancier ones can be more like the big road trip gas stations you sometimes run into
fr0sty 4y ago
I'd love to find a good number on the daily mileage of the median passenger car in the US. The average looks to be around 30-35mi/day but the median is probably a small fraction of that. Why would you want your battery pack to be 10x oversized for your typical day? I think a more efficient solution would be series-hybrids with small onboard generators for range extension. Minimize weight/cost of the battery pack while maintaining the ability to drive cross-country without frequent charging stops.
- lastLinkedList 4y ago
  One of the economies of battery scale is durability, no? What you gain in cost savings up front you lose by needing to replace the batteries more frequently than N times the larger battery pack size.
- deelowe 4y ago
  My understanding is that hybrids are more costly than simply putting in a larger pack. It's certainly an order of magnitude more complex.
  - fr0sty 4y ago
    PHEVs are certainly more complex, but a series hybrid like the BMW i3 only involves finding space for a small genset and some additional control software/electronics. I'm having trouble finding good numbers but this[0] article says the option added only ~$4k to the price. [0] https://insideevs.com/news/317236/first-bmw-i3-electric-car-test-ride-23-gallon-range-extender-option-to-cost-about-4000/ https://insideevs.com/news/317236/first-bmw-i3-electric-car-...
cptskippy 4y ago
That's pretty much how road trips in a Tesla play out today. After depleting the battery you want to get out and stretch your legs, use the bathroom, and get a snack. Most fast chargers are located near or at amenities. This is how it should be. I could see rest stops on the highway being outfitted with fast chargers in the future.
- deelowe 4y ago
  Only issue is that rest stops kind of suck for resting. :-)
  - cptskippy 4y ago
    The ones in Arizona are pretty horrific but Georgia's are pretty decent.
Fatnino 4y ago
That's nice for you that your 20 minute poop breaks are enough time to charge your car. On the other hand, every time I have traveled by car between the bay area and LA (~400 miles, 5-6 hours one way) , I/we never* made any stops longer than 10 minutes. *I say never, but there have actually been a couple times when I set out not well rested and on the return leg I needed to stop in the middle somewhere to catch some shut eye. But the vast majority of trips are on the road the entire time except one stop for 5 minutes to fill gas and empty bladder.

AlanSE 4y ago

Some form of this thought is irresistible, but we shouldn't hesitate to point out the obvious flaws. You load up your car with more people and more stuff when you go on a trip, and more batteries would add MORE load on the frame. This doesn't work. Ideally, you would add another axle. Suspend disbelief and follow that thought to its logical conclusion. You have almost certainly PLANNED your trip. You know what time you will depart, and the trip may take 4 to 10 hours, done in a single day. Additionally, you will spend 30 minutes packing your car, and more space is a premium. Keep following me, just a little bit longer.. The day before you depart at, say 3pm, a worker from an established car rental service pulls up in front of your house and parks on your street. They unhitch a trailer from their car, do some technical checks, and are gone in 5 minutes. You arrive home from work, and have a trailer that will add 400 miles of range to your car and offer extra packing space (for things). You pack up the trailer & car and go to bed. In the morning, as you pull out, you get out and hook up the trailer. Depending on your trip, you may charge up the car & trailer once, or not at all. I'm guessing that it will be able to connect two chargers at once. This seems like not-a-bad-idea, and compatible with current infrastructure. While it incurs a cost, and requires EVs to be built for the purpose, it's a much more minor change than battery swapping. The cost could be quite small compared to the other solutions for the same problem, and it frankly sounds more direct.