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The problem with swap stations, in addition to the large infrastructure cost, is that you need to keep your vehicles and battery packs compatible for years to c

The problem with swap stations, in addition to the large infrastructure cost, is that you need to keep your vehicles and battery packs compatible for years to come. If you have 4 different car models, you either need all 4 vehicles to use the same battery pack format, or you need to have multiple battery packs available. It might seem trivial, but it's a significant design constraint. IMO if technology progresses and we can get rapid charging times close to 10 minutes or less, battery swapping technology will become entirely moot. My prediction is that NIO will have to sink a lot of cost into this technology to build all the swapping stations and have all the spare packs available, and that will likely be its downfall. If you think I'm being silly, then please consider that NIO is the same company that invested in having yoga lessons at its dealerships[0], which seems like WeWorks-level stupidity to me. This company does not know how to deploy capital in a lean and effective manner IMO. [0] https://cnevpost.com/2022/12/17/nio-opens-first-nio-house-in-germany/ https://cnevpost.com/2022/12/17/nio-opens-first-nio-house-in...

Spooky23 4y ago
Totally agree. I think it makes sense for fleet vehicles though. For a truck, bus, etc, I think it makes a lot of sense to swap and go.
- snek_case 4y ago
  I could see it for a semi truck. Another advantage there is that you don't need it to look pretty, you don't need to try to hide the battery under the truck.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Part of our org operates a couple of box trucks for equipment delivery and other stuff - this type of thing would be a boon to us, I’d assume the an electric truck would be like an electric car with reduced maintenance, etc. Being able to keep these things rolling and deal with battery warranty claims without downing a truck would be a real cost saver - when trucks break down it’s really expensive to either reschedule or lease short term.
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    Can they really load so fast as to bottleneck on the current 30 minute charge times (Tesla Semi, 70% fast charge)? A swap station would need maintenance and refilling, so it's starting from behind and has to earn back its keep by eliminating latency that absolutely can't be hidden any other way.
    - bluSCALE4 4y ago
      I suppose it would feel like a dream when it actually works. I'd imagine it a lot like a car wash experience. The only thing that worries me is how the batteries are handled. Freighters are the worst and ding up everything. Imagine shipping 100s of batteries around the country? Sounds like a nightmare if they're not using specialized trucks or packing material.
      - Fatnino 4y ago
        Why would they need to ship batteries all over the place? The swapped out battery gets recharged and put in the next car.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    Truck battery swaps in Australia. Not automated but it works: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-and-go-electric-trucks-to-run-between-sydney-and-brisbane-using-exchangeable-batteries https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-...
ChainOfFools 4y ago
Why not let cars use model or brand specific battery storage solutions for, say, 80% of their power and a swappable reasonably sized standard form factor modular battery for the last 15-20%, just for critical drive-home, or at least drive-to-the-next-swap-station storage? It seems like something the size of a briefcase ought to be suitable for just about any format of electric vehicle aside from motorcycles, which likely would have less need for this facility anyway due to quick charging.
- HALtheWise 4y ago
  Might as well just charge though? Even without DC fast charging, adding 15-20% charge onto an EV won't take very long, and it's a lot easier and less capital intensive to maintain a charging station than a battery swap station. For that matter, any outlet in the entire world can already function as a charger for last-minute emergencies, which is a density that dedicated infrastructure could never hope to match.
- wongarsu 4y ago
  The first ~30% charge the fastest. A Tesla S Plaid already charges from 5 to 20% in 4 minutes [1] on a DC fast charger. 1: https://insideevs.com/news/515641/tesla-models-plaid-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/515641/tesla-models-plaid-chargin...
  - bluSCALE4 4y ago
    That's far but what happens when these start popping up next to Tesla chargers and you're waiting in line while people I breezing through NIO stations? It's a pipe dream atm but I believe it will spark something in Tesla owners.
jjoonathan 4y ago
I dunno, putting exclusive clubs at chargers sounds like a good way to build premium brand image. China is big. Building a cult in China sounds like good business. Until the CCP steps on you, I suppose?
Kuinox 4y ago
Car plateforms are already the same between a lot of brands. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stellantis_platforms https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stellantis_platforms Renault tried to have a standard swappable battery but gave up due to too little industry following.

Spooky23 4y ago

Totally agree. I think it makes sense for fleet vehicles though. For a truck, bus, etc, I think it makes a lot of sense to swap and go.

snek_case 4y ago
I could see it for a semi truck. Another advantage there is that you don't need it to look pretty, you don't need to try to hide the battery under the truck.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Part of our org operates a couple of box trucks for equipment delivery and other stuff - this type of thing would be a boon to us, I’d assume the an electric truck would be like an electric car with reduced maintenance, etc. Being able to keep these things rolling and deal with battery warranty claims without downing a truck would be a real cost saver - when trucks break down it’s really expensive to either reschedule or lease short term.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  Can they really load so fast as to bottleneck on the current 30 minute charge times (Tesla Semi, 70% fast charge)? A swap station would need maintenance and refilling, so it's starting from behind and has to earn back its keep by eliminating latency that absolutely can't be hidden any other way.
  - bluSCALE4 4y ago
    I suppose it would feel like a dream when it actually works. I'd imagine it a lot like a car wash experience. The only thing that worries me is how the batteries are handled. Freighters are the worst and ding up everything. Imagine shipping 100s of batteries around the country? Sounds like a nightmare if they're not using specialized trucks or packing material.
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      Why would they need to ship batteries all over the place? The swapped out battery gets recharged and put in the next car.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  Truck battery swaps in Australia. Not automated but it works: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-and-go-electric-trucks-to-run-between-sydney-and-brisbane-using-exchangeable-batteries https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-...

ChainOfFools 4y ago

Why not let cars use model or brand specific battery storage solutions for, say, 80% of their power and a swappable reasonably sized standard form factor modular battery for the last 15-20%, just for critical drive-home, or at least drive-to-the-next-swap-station storage? It seems like something the size of a briefcase ought to be suitable for just about any format of electric vehicle aside from motorcycles, which likely would have less need for this facility anyway due to quick charging.

HALtheWise 4y ago
Might as well just charge though? Even without DC fast charging, adding 15-20% charge onto an EV won't take very long, and it's a lot easier and less capital intensive to maintain a charging station than a battery swap station. For that matter, any outlet in the entire world can already function as a charger for last-minute emergencies, which is a density that dedicated infrastructure could never hope to match.
wongarsu 4y ago
The first ~30% charge the fastest. A Tesla S Plaid already charges from 5 to 20% in 4 minutes [1] on a DC fast charger. 1: https://insideevs.com/news/515641/tesla-models-plaid-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/515641/tesla-models-plaid-chargin...
- bluSCALE4 4y ago
  That's far but what happens when these start popping up next to Tesla chargers and you're waiting in line while people I breezing through NIO stations? It's a pipe dream atm but I believe it will spark something in Tesla owners.

jjoonathan 4y ago

I dunno, putting exclusive clubs at chargers sounds like a good way to build premium brand image. China is big. Building a cult in China sounds like good business. Until the CCP steps on you, I suppose?

Kuinox 4y ago

Car plateforms are already the same between a lot of brands. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stellantis_platforms https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stellantis_platforms Renault tried to have a standard swappable battery but gave up due to too little industry following.