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History suggests we will see obnoxious hacker news comments about how the M-series processors are some unrivaled alien technology that will be forever unbeaten

History suggests we will see obnoxious hacker news comments about how the M-series processors are some unrivaled alien technology that will be forever unbeaten when it comes to performance followed by AMD releasing a low wattage CPU with better multicore performance about 8 months later (or whenever they get fab capacity anyways).

personjerry 4y ago
What AMD-powered computer is more energy efficient than a M1 for example?
- zekica 4y ago
  Apple M1 Pro vs AMD 5800u - 2 months apart (October vs December 2021). 5nm vs 7nm TSMC. They have comparable performance (60-120% in multi core depending on the task, 90-110% in single core) and the same power draw.
  - Cupprum 4y ago
    Where did you get those numbers? According to [1] its not even the same ballpark. To me it seems that even normal m1 is a bit better [2]. [1] - https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-pro-vs-amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-pro-vs-amd-ry... [2] - https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-...
coffeebeqn 4y ago
What I really want is for them to release a lineup like Aerith - the super efficient Steam Deck SoC for the general market so we get more fun forms of computers
hbn 4y ago
The first M1 devices released in November 2020. Where is AMD's competitive chip that came out July 2021?
- smoldesu 4y ago
  AMD had the Ryzen 4800u shipping with a similar power envelope and higher multicore scores. Battery life was a good few hours shorter than the M1, but it was also manufactured on 7nm versus the Apple's 5nm. Performance tends to favor people on the denser node, so it's impressive to see x86 still competitive by modern standards. If you need further evidence of this pattern, look at Nvidia's ridiculous 40-series cards. More expensive than a used car, but they were able to secure TSMC's 4nm node and annihilate everyone else. Apple did the same thing with M1, and it looks like that's what they're gearing up for with M3.
  - wewtyflakes 4y ago
    Customers care about this: > Battery life was a good few hours shorter than the M1 They do not care about this: > ...but it was also manufactured on 7nm versus the Apple's 5nm
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      I agree. It's worth noting that the 4800u was on store shelves 18 months before the first M1s were released, however. Apple Silicon was released into a market that had had already seen comparable APUs.
  - freehorse 4y ago
    > similar power envelope Power envelopes are reported in very misleading ways by companies, in practice it is not even close. The way they report stuff is having their cake and eat it too: the benchmarks results assume boosting their frequencies above the base one, while the "power envelopes" advertised are on the base frequency. It becomes quite apparent when you run them on battery, where M1/2s continue performing the same as plugged in, and amd/intel laptops underperform, while also not even lasting as much as apple's on battery.
dragonelite 4y ago
Yeah i guess its mostly apple buying up the most advance nodes capacity at TSMC. It should be interesting once Intel and AMD get on the same node level as Apple hardware then a comparison can be made.
- philistine 4y ago
  That will never happen. Apple has too much buying power. AMD and Intel don't make the most popular phone in the world, so they can't put down the money to compete for fab space.
moffkalast 4y ago
[flagged]
piyh 4y ago
Is there any Windows machine that's fanless and at M1 speeds?
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  I can set my gigabyte laptop to Quiet mode and it's as good as fanless. As to the speed, I can play Doom Eternal with it (it has a mobile 3080 card), which M1 can't.
  - piyh 4y ago
    As good as fanless is not fanless. I want to be able to put my laptop on top of the bed of dust and not have the interior be coated in a second.
  - geoffmac 4y ago
    So not fanless
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
      From the point of view of quantum mechanics, if you can't hear the fan, it does not exist)
tambourine_man 4y ago
Likewise, history will tell you we'll periodically see obnoxious hacker news comments claiming the M-series can’t possibly be better than what the x86 world has to offer. We’ve been reading for decades that ISAs don’t matter that much anymore, and yet everything that needs good battery life is ARM. Intel was the undisputed manufacturing kind for 40 years or so. Things change.
- CoolGuySteve 4y ago
  I don't know, why did x86 beat PowerPC, MIPS, SPARC, and whatever else in the desktop and server space? Seems like node size for the price beats everything else which is what we're talking about here. Apple's anticompetitive practices are not particularly compelling evidence of some inherent architectural superiority.
jacooper 4y ago
Also not mentioning the myriad of problems that comes with using Arm as you main PC

personjerry 4y ago

What AMD-powered computer is more energy efficient than a M1 for example?

zekica 4y ago
Apple M1 Pro vs AMD 5800u - 2 months apart (October vs December 2021). 5nm vs 7nm TSMC. They have comparable performance (60-120% in multi core depending on the task, 90-110% in single core) and the same power draw.
- Cupprum 4y ago
  Where did you get those numbers? According to [1] its not even the same ballpark. To me it seems that even normal m1 is a bit better [2]. [1] - https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-pro-vs-amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-pro-vs-amd-ry... [2] - https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-7-5800u https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m1-vs-amd-ryzen-...

coffeebeqn 4y ago

What I really want is for them to release a lineup like Aerith - the super efficient Steam Deck SoC for the general market so we get more fun forms of computers

hbn 4y ago

The first M1 devices released in November 2020. Where is AMD's competitive chip that came out July 2021?

smoldesu 4y ago
AMD had the Ryzen 4800u shipping with a similar power envelope and higher multicore scores. Battery life was a good few hours shorter than the M1, but it was also manufactured on 7nm versus the Apple's 5nm. Performance tends to favor people on the denser node, so it's impressive to see x86 still competitive by modern standards. If you need further evidence of this pattern, look at Nvidia's ridiculous 40-series cards. More expensive than a used car, but they were able to secure TSMC's 4nm node and annihilate everyone else. Apple did the same thing with M1, and it looks like that's what they're gearing up for with M3.
- wewtyflakes 4y ago
  Customers care about this: > Battery life was a good few hours shorter than the M1 They do not care about this: > ...but it was also manufactured on 7nm versus the Apple's 5nm
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I agree. It's worth noting that the 4800u was on store shelves 18 months before the first M1s were released, however. Apple Silicon was released into a market that had had already seen comparable APUs.
- freehorse 4y ago
  > similar power envelope Power envelopes are reported in very misleading ways by companies, in practice it is not even close. The way they report stuff is having their cake and eat it too: the benchmarks results assume boosting their frequencies above the base one, while the "power envelopes" advertised are on the base frequency. It becomes quite apparent when you run them on battery, where M1/2s continue performing the same as plugged in, and amd/intel laptops underperform, while also not even lasting as much as apple's on battery.

dragonelite 4y ago

Yeah i guess its mostly apple buying up the most advance nodes capacity at TSMC. It should be interesting once Intel and AMD get on the same node level as Apple hardware then a comparison can be made.

philistine 4y ago
That will never happen. Apple has too much buying power. AMD and Intel don't make the most popular phone in the world, so they can't put down the money to compete for fab space.

moffkalast 4y ago

[flagged]

piyh 4y ago

Is there any Windows machine that's fanless and at M1 speeds?

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
I can set my gigabyte laptop to Quiet mode and it's as good as fanless. As to the speed, I can play Doom Eternal with it (it has a mobile 3080 card), which M1 can't.
- piyh 4y ago
  As good as fanless is not fanless. I want to be able to put my laptop on top of the bed of dust and not have the interior be coated in a second.
- geoffmac 4y ago
  So not fanless
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
    From the point of view of quantum mechanics, if you can't hear the fan, it does not exist)

tambourine_man 4y ago

Likewise, history will tell you we'll periodically see obnoxious hacker news comments claiming the M-series can’t possibly be better than what the x86 world has to offer. We’ve been reading for decades that ISAs don’t matter that much anymore, and yet everything that needs good battery life is ARM. Intel was the undisputed manufacturing kind for 40 years or so. Things change.

CoolGuySteve 4y ago
I don't know, why did x86 beat PowerPC, MIPS, SPARC, and whatever else in the desktop and server space? Seems like node size for the price beats everything else which is what we're talking about here. Apple's anticompetitive practices are not particularly compelling evidence of some inherent architectural superiority.

jacooper 4y ago

Also not mentioning the myriad of problems that comes with using Arm as you main PC