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>While he carried a cell phone, he had no service I find that most people have no idea that the GPS used by phones for positioning has nothing to do with norma

• pixelbreaker 4y ago
  GPS will work in most locations, yes, but most apps don't have a simplified basemap, unless you have preloaded it.
  • melling 4y ago
    Yes, I’ve been preloading Google Maps before trips for years because I never know if I’m going to pay for service while on vacation.
• giancarlostoro 4y ago
  The issue you're missing is most "GPS Apps" use information gathered from the internet, and most people don't download "offline maps" which I used to do, which would allow you to GPS as you suggest without data since all the location information is now locally stored.
  • deleted 4y ago
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  • Dalewyn 4y ago
    So much this. For /any/ truly off-grid GPS usage, it's well worth the money to just go and buy a proper GPS unit with no dependency on outside connections other than the GPS signals. I'm not even talking about hiking on some obscure trail in WhereTheHellistan either. Even just driving down the highway out into the countrysides could leave you miserable if all you have is a phone with spotty or no data signal. Personally, the Rand McNally GPS unit that cost me a pretty penny has more than paid for itself every time it always just worked while phones just derped worthlessly.
    • rtkwe 4y ago
      There are also dedicated offline map apps you can use. My current one is OSMAND that works off Open Street Map data and can do turn by turn directions without a cell connection. It's a couple gigabytes to have a complete map of the US that's at least up to date enough to navigate out of the back country.
    • fatnoah 4y ago
      > For /any/ truly off-grid GPS usage, it's well worth the money to just go and buy a proper GPS unit with no dependency on outside connections other than the GPS signals. This is the way. I have a Garmin watch that has GPS, maps, and a compass built-in. It's also got a several day battery life when all the features are on, and well-over 30 days in a battery saver mode. While the maps aren't the best, a compass + GPS + paper map would let you know where you were.
    • freehorse 4y ago
      I have hiked plenty with basic, free gps apps with pre-downloaded maps plenty times. While manually disabling phone signal for conserving battery. Never had an issue. It is really really simple actually. The person in question was totally unprepared. One should never assume that they are going to have signal in the wilderness and they should definitely not depend on that to navigate themselves while hiking.
• somewhat_drunk 4y ago
  Also, maps.me uses openstreetmaps, which has very comprehensive and surprisingly accurate trail maps, and the entire world (or whichever sections of it you desire) can be downloaded for offline use. It's been my go-to for years.
  • notpushkin 4y ago
    Let me plug Organic Maps here, which is a fork of MAPS.ME before it turned into that weird thing with a Web3 wallet and token and kitchen sink. It's maintained by the same people who created MapsWithMe in 2011, has zero telemetry, zero ads, and is thus one of my favourite maps on Android (though it supports iOS too). https://organicmaps.app/ https://organicmaps.app/
    • gorbypark 4y ago
      I use Organic Maps extensivly while hiking. It works amazingly well overall without any sort of signal. Download the maps beforehand, verify the trails you want to hike and off you go! Verifying is key, as Organic Maps doesn't really differentiate between "major hiking trail" and "random little trail that's more like bushwhacking than hiking". It even works great as a turn by turn navigator. I like going to Andorra, and one of the downsides there is no free roaming like in the EU, so it comes in handy even just for directions and finding businesses when walking around a city.
    • somewhat_drunk 4y ago
      Nice, thanks!
  • stef25 4y ago
    There's also Guru Maps which has WAY more features & better maps than maps.me (which is more useful in cities). There used to be MotionX GPS but they shut it down I'd feel confident crossing Africa using Guru, it's rock solid.
  • I_complete_me 4y ago
    Apropos tips for inexperienced hikers (I do quite a bit of solo hill-walking and mountain biking). One thing I do at an unfamilar site is mark my parked car's location on OSMAND - OpenStreetMaps on Android. I don't need any cell satellite signal to verify it - turning on location helps - and then I know where to return to in an emergency or point someone to. Zooming out gives me geographical context. Also, I always carry a paper map and compass and know how to use them If you don't, don't go. Simples. Also for a nooby hiker, printing out a paper copy of the proposed trail and wrap it in cling film is a good idea. Here in Ireland, I find mountain-views.ie a great site to get an idea of what other hikers actually experienced on a trail before I go. I do this and have never got into trouble. On the subject of Garmin GPSMap60 CSX and I found it great. But after one trip, I forgot to take out the AA batteries and bricked it. THAT was stupid. You live and learn (a bit; sometimes).
• nashashmi 4y ago
  In addition, GPS coordinates will work but it is not accurate nor stable. AGPS works accurately but it needs nearby cell towers.
  • harshreality 4y ago
    Accurate and stable are relative. He wasn't geocaching or even trying to figure out which of two streets a few dozen meters apart to turn on. He needed to know which direction to go to get back to his car miles away. Any GPS fix would work, even if it was very rough and 50m off which it probably wouldn't be since he was out in the open with only some hills to deal with. GPS would have been fine. He wasn't even minimally prepared to use it.
• notpushkin 4y ago
  No, you're right. I believe there should be some mapping apps dedicated to hikers, but I think just downloading a map in two different mapping apps (just in case) should be sufficient.
  • eptcyka 4y ago
    Osmand and the iOS equivalent are perfectly reasonable choices for hiking, much better than driving or exploring anyway.
• DocTomoe 4y ago
  That's nice and useful in many circumstances, but a phone - and an SOS signal - serve a different purpose: To save your life when you can't save yourself, e.g. if you are trapped or your leg is broken on the trail.
• quijoteuniv 4y ago
  Yes, this was true already before smartphones! I hiked with a sony erikkson, that had a GPS with a downloaded map that help me find my exact spot in a PAPER map. But this guy was on the weong trail from the start.
• is_true 4y ago
  Google maps offline feature is not very reliable in my experience. Multiple times the satellite layer didn't work or was at a much lower resolution than wehn the map was saved.
• londons_explore 4y ago
  Many phone GPS's work near instantly when you have an internet connection, but if you use them in a forest with no internet, you might well be waiting up to 10 minutes to get a position. Thats because the forest blocks many of the GPS satellites, and the remaining small number of signals take an awfully long time to collect information about the satellite orbits (which is normally downloaded from the internet with AGPS). If you didn't know this, you would probably not wait 10 minutes for it to work - you'd just assume it wasn't working. That fact is made worse by the fact that on android, if you switch away from the map app and then then go back again, this 10 minute process entirely restarts because the GPS gets switched off and forgets any fragments of information it had already collected!
  • tonyarkles 4y ago
    Technically 12.5 minutes :). Here's a bit of fun (to me) info about the GPS constellations and the wild speed of it: - data transmitted at 50 bits/s - data frames are 1500 bits long, divided into 5 subframes - Subframes 1-3 are satellite-specific and subframe 3 contains the high-precision orbit information for the sat you're receiving from. Subframes 4 and 5 contain the almanac that gives you a list of coarse orbit info for the entire constellation. - The almanac consists of 25 pages of data. Each sequential frame has one page of the almanac. 30 second frames * 25 pages = 12.5 minutes to download the entire almanac once you have a lock on a given satellite. All of the satellites broadcast the almanac at the same time, but they're time synchronized so all of them are broadcasting page 1 at the same time.
  • deleted 4y ago
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• Xylakant 4y ago
  In some ways, a good navigation app with proper hiking maps, downloaded before is functionally equivalent. But hiking GPS devices are optimized for outdoor usage, more resilient and have substantially longer battery life. They often work of AA batteries, so you can bring spares. A smartphone can partially emulate what a “proper” hiking GPS does, but its general nature makes it less suitable when you’re really out in the wild.
  • adrianN 4y ago
    A smartphone battery and a rough map should be sufficient to get you back to your car from some 20 mile loop trail when you get lost.
    • Xylakant 4y ago
      A 20 mile loop trail in rough terrain can be a 10+ hour hike, depending on your skill and fitness. If things work out, you’ll be fine with a smartphone, maybe with a powerbank to recharge. If shit hits the fan, you’ll be in trouble. So it depends. Do I need to hike with my smartphone only? Certainly, in places where there’s a significant likelihood of encountering other people. I’m not taking a GPS to the woods out of town. Would I go on a trip somewhere less populated with my smartphone only? No, definitely not. Paper maps make for a great backup, if you know how to navigate in terrain, but many people lack that skill.
• chillfox 4y ago
  I haven't tried recently, but last time I tried using google maps while on holiday with data switched off it just showed me being in the middle of a gray screen.
  • soylentcola 4y ago
    I occasionally fire it up while on a plane (not connected to wifi or cellular - only GPS satellites) and take a look at what I'm flying over. It takes a while to connect to satellites, but it's cool to zoom in and see yourself hauling ass across the land.
• stef25 4y ago
  I'd feel more confident using a dedicated GPS, if only for the fact it runs on AA batteries and you wouldn't get stuck with annoying smartphone behavior or apps crashing. A Garmin GPSMap60 CSX for example is an excellent device, basically bulletproof. Just make sure you learn to use it in advance, have the proper maps (OSM) and don't get caught with coordinates in the wrong formats. OSM is so detailed it's accurately displays mud tracks in remote areas of Vietnam. I thought "this can't possibly be right" but it certainly was. Dedicated device is best, smartphone is a good backup.
• FireBeyond 4y ago
  > Mapping apps have a rough map of the world always locally available Apple Maps does not. One of my regular drives has an area of no cell service (around 5 miles away from the state capital, so of course that makes sense), and Apple Maps will routinely just display a dot on an empty screen.