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Agreed, it's not like this is the first time Apple has denied a "competing" application. I can't wait for Android to be released on a decent handset. Then I ca

Agreed, it's not like this is the first time Apple has denied a "competing" application. I can't wait for Android to be released on a decent handset. Then I can give my iPhone to my wife.

zzzmarcus 18y ago
I have an iPhone and have used Android on the G1 extensively... the best (if not lacking in creativity) comparison between the OS's is Android is like Ubuntu on the desktop and the iPhone is like OS X on the desktop. If you're happy using Ubuntu, you'll probably be happy using Android. I think it's going to come down to values--easy and flashy vs. open. If the Linux vs. Windows/OS X battle of the last 10 years is any indication, my guess is that the iPhone will dominate the market and Android will only win geek cred.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Which means that I might buy an Android phone if I want a small handheld wireless computer, but I won't be using it as my actual phone.
tptacek 18y ago
This isn't Podcast Listener Pro or whatever; nobody will be surprised if Apple turns down Windows Media Player or Azureus either. One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =)
- dmpayton 18y ago
  One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. I think they were testing the waters to see how Apple would react to a larger and much better-known company putting a competing product into the app store. Unsurprisingly, Apple did the same thing they've always done. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) That fine, as long as I have the choice to be that geek. That's what attracts me (and other geeks, I'm sure) to Android the most: I have choices. If I don't like the default media player, I can install another one (or, barring that, write my own) without fear that the Almighty Apple will lay the smackdown.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Give me a break, Derek. They weren't "testing the waters". Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone, and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky, although I really don't share your politics. But let's not be disingenuous. It's not news that you can't run Opera --- or Flash, or Skype --- on an iPhone.
    - dmpayton 18y ago
      Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone... You are correct on the SDK terms, I had completely forgotten about that. IIRC, Opera would be considered an emulator since it allow you to run Javascript, yes? ...and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. Which is exactly why I said it's no surprise that Opera was turned down, although there is obviously much more to the story. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky... No need to apologize, I hadn't taken any offense. ...although I really don't share your politics. I assume that by "politics" you mean my feelings towards openness, choice, and F/OSS (since we seem to have similar feelings towards US politics, but I digress). All I'm saying is that options are good. Apple limits your options with the iPhone, so I'm looking forward to getting an Android phone in the future.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Openness: good. Extremely high quality: good. Either makes a fine product as far as I'm concerned. Both is gravy. Don't forget to vote!
- jrockway 18y ago
  You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) Are you over the age of 13? If so, this probably shouldn't concern you.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    I would use the word "amuse" in place of "concern".
- wizlb 18y ago
  "You're going to be the one geek in the room...blah, blah, blah..." Actually real geeks are much more interested in Android than iPhone because of Apple's bullshit. Welcome to the 90's all over again when Apple lost the desktop war to Windows.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Yeah, because I definitely see more geeks writing Android code than iPhone code.
    - wizlb 18y ago
      Android has more developers in it's first year than iPhone had in it's first year. Give it some time... As usual, Apple won't be able to offer you as much choice in hardware as will be available for Android. And, we can already see that there will be more software choices and flexibility for Android.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Why do I want lots of choice in hardware for my phone?
        acgourley 18y ago
        ... are you serious?
        unalone 18y ago
        I think the point he's making is that if the hardware is sufficient enough in the iPhone, then it doesn't matter that you can't get it in a variety of various systems. In fact, as it is with all Apple products, I'd say that's an advantage in Apple's favor. Not everybody agrees, but it suits me fine, and it suits a lot of other people pretty well, too. So I get your not liking Apple, but don't get condescending about it. Apple's theory has always been that if they control the hardware, they don't have to compromise their software. That results in really remarkable things.
- olefoo 18y ago
  This year maybe. But in two years time most phones will be Androids. We've been down this road before, except this time around an unencumbered OS is there from the inception of the environment.
  - Viper 18y ago
    If the iphone is the jesus phone. Is the gphone the God phone? or is the android phone the agnostic phone?
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Want to put $100 on that?
    - olefoo 18y ago
      What exactly would we be betting and how are we going to judge the outcome? new phones in the preceding month? estimates of phones in use at time t[0] and t[1]? iPhones are in the minority of total phones in use right now. What geographic area do you want to restrict it to? Remember that most of the world cannot buy and operate a 2nd gen iPhone without voiding the warranty, and if you think that iPhones are going to dominate the market in asia and africa, you are being optimistic.
      - redrobot5050 18y ago
        Stop me if I'm wrong, but Apple actually got AT&T to develop features on the backend of their network to get visual voicemail working. Android was also a bid from Google to have the newly opened bit of spectrum be a "utility" band, where any device that gets FCC certified can plug into that network -- regardless of carrier or manufacturer. That didn't fly. I would wager that's a more telling indication of who's going to come out on top of the scrap heap. The wireless handheld market is not beholden to perfect competition. Especially not within the US of A.
- nailer 18y ago
  > You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone. No he won't. I'm giving my iPhone to the wife too.

Agreed, it's not like this is the first time Apple has denied a "competing" application. I can't wait for Android to be released on a decent handset. Then I can give my iPhone to my wife.

zzzmarcus 18y ago

I have an iPhone and have used Android on the G1 extensively... the best (if not lacking in creativity) comparison between the OS's is Android is like Ubuntu on the desktop and the iPhone is like OS X on the desktop. If you're happy using Ubuntu, you'll probably be happy using Android. I think it's going to come down to values--easy and flashy vs. open. If the Linux vs. Windows/OS X battle of the last 10 years is any indication, my guess is that the iPhone will dominate the market and Android will only win geek cred.

tptacek 18y ago
Which means that I might buy an Android phone if I want a small handheld wireless computer, but I won't be using it as my actual phone.

tptacek 18y ago

This isn't Podcast Listener Pro or whatever; nobody will be surprised if Apple turns down Windows Media Player or Azureus either. One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =)

dmpayton 18y ago
One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. I think they were testing the waters to see how Apple would react to a larger and much better-known company putting a competing product into the app store. Unsurprisingly, Apple did the same thing they've always done. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) That fine, as long as I have the choice to be that geek. That's what attracts me (and other geeks, I'm sure) to Android the most: I have choices. If I don't like the default media player, I can install another one (or, barring that, write my own) without fear that the Almighty Apple will lay the smackdown.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Give me a break, Derek. They weren't "testing the waters". Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone, and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky, although I really don't share your politics. But let's not be disingenuous. It's not news that you can't run Opera --- or Flash, or Skype --- on an iPhone.
  - dmpayton 18y ago
    Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone... You are correct on the SDK terms, I had completely forgotten about that. IIRC, Opera would be considered an emulator since it allow you to run Javascript, yes? ...and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. Which is exactly why I said it's no surprise that Opera was turned down, although there is obviously much more to the story. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky... No need to apologize, I hadn't taken any offense. ...although I really don't share your politics. I assume that by "politics" you mean my feelings towards openness, choice, and F/OSS (since we seem to have similar feelings towards US politics, but I digress). All I'm saying is that options are good. Apple limits your options with the iPhone, so I'm looking forward to getting an Android phone in the future.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      Openness: good. Extremely high quality: good. Either makes a fine product as far as I'm concerned. Both is gravy. Don't forget to vote!
jrockway 18y ago
You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) Are you over the age of 13? If so, this probably shouldn't concern you.
- tptacek 18y ago
  I would use the word "amuse" in place of "concern".
wizlb 18y ago
"You're going to be the one geek in the room...blah, blah, blah..." Actually real geeks are much more interested in Android than iPhone because of Apple's bullshit. Welcome to the 90's all over again when Apple lost the desktop war to Windows.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Yeah, because I definitely see more geeks writing Android code than iPhone code.
  - wizlb 18y ago
    Android has more developers in it's first year than iPhone had in it's first year. Give it some time... As usual, Apple won't be able to offer you as much choice in hardware as will be available for Android. And, we can already see that there will be more software choices and flexibility for Android.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      Why do I want lots of choice in hardware for my phone?
      - acgourley 18y ago
        ... are you serious?
        unalone 18y ago
        I think the point he's making is that if the hardware is sufficient enough in the iPhone, then it doesn't matter that you can't get it in a variety of various systems. In fact, as it is with all Apple products, I'd say that's an advantage in Apple's favor. Not everybody agrees, but it suits me fine, and it suits a lot of other people pretty well, too. So I get your not liking Apple, but don't get condescending about it. Apple's theory has always been that if they control the hardware, they don't have to compromise their software. That results in really remarkable things.
olefoo 18y ago
This year maybe. But in two years time most phones will be Androids. We've been down this road before, except this time around an unencumbered OS is there from the inception of the environment.
- Viper 18y ago
  If the iphone is the jesus phone. Is the gphone the God phone? or is the android phone the agnostic phone?
- tptacek 18y ago
  Want to put $100 on that?
  - olefoo 18y ago
    What exactly would we be betting and how are we going to judge the outcome? new phones in the preceding month? estimates of phones in use at time t[0] and t[1]? iPhones are in the minority of total phones in use right now. What geographic area do you want to restrict it to? Remember that most of the world cannot buy and operate a 2nd gen iPhone without voiding the warranty, and if you think that iPhones are going to dominate the market in asia and africa, you are being optimistic.
    - redrobot5050 18y ago
      Stop me if I'm wrong, but Apple actually got AT&T to develop features on the backend of their network to get visual voicemail working. Android was also a bid from Google to have the newly opened bit of spectrum be a "utility" band, where any device that gets FCC certified can plug into that network -- regardless of carrier or manufacturer. That didn't fly. I would wager that's a more telling indication of who's going to come out on top of the scrap heap. The wireless handheld market is not beholden to perfect competition. Especially not within the US of A.
nailer 18y ago
> You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone. No he won't. I'm giving my iPhone to the wife too.