3 ms·

I find the concept of using immigration to solve the problem bizarre.. like Japan will survive but without Japanese people./

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
In many other countries, immigrants eventually become just as much a part of the country as non-immigrants. There are millions of children of immigrants in Germany who speak German just as natively as anyone else in the country, just to give you one example.
fluoridation 4y ago
There's no way out of a depopulation spiral other than reversing it or dying out. If they die out some other nation will take over their land, so it's merely a question of whether the ethnically non-Japanese people who will inhabit the land in the future will call themselves Japanese or not. What happens when a nation has its ethnicity completely replaced? Does it lose its national identity or not?
sofixa 4y ago
What is a Japanese person, how do you define that? For most people someone born, raised, with citizenship, fluent in the language and culture, regardless of their parents' provenance or skin colour is a a fully fledged person of that nationality and ethnicity.
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  Well, that the official declaration. But we all know that it is a lie. Even for very similar ethnicities like say Italian, French, German and Swiss you can easily tell the difference. National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I know two people of very close Italian descent (parents/grandparents were born in Italy) in France, and they're as French as anyone who can trace their lineage to 15th century Versailles. The only Italian parts remaining are their surnames. > National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes. Citation very much needed.
    - Silverback_VII 4y ago
      >Citation very much needed. I'm sure that there are studies but let's be honest. This is just common sense. I'm sure that if you replace Japanese people with Berbers from North Africa, Japan will look very different.
      - fluoridation 4y ago
        So you're saying that if you took 50 million Berber babies (for the sake of argument let's suppose that this is possible) and gave them to Japanese families, the next generation in Japan would be significantly more Berberish? Or are you saying that if you took 50 million adult Berbers and deposited them in Japan that Japan would be very different? If you're saying the latter: what role is genetics playing in that scenario? If you're saying the former: no, culture is not a genetic trait. Obviously.
        areyousure 4y ago
        In case anyone is curious, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_inheritance_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_inheritance_theory mentions the canonical example of cultural and genetic coëvolution: lactose (in)tolerance. In particular, in the given hypothetical, one might predict a change in the dairy culture in Japan if suddenly the population was significantly more tolerant of lactose. (I assume the usual example of lactose intolerant is chosen because it appears some people are otherwise religiously opposed to considering the relationship between culture and genetics.)
        fluoridation 4y ago

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago

In many other countries, immigrants eventually become just as much a part of the country as non-immigrants. There are millions of children of immigrants in Germany who speak German just as natively as anyone else in the country, just to give you one example.

fluoridation 4y ago

There's no way out of a depopulation spiral other than reversing it or dying out. If they die out some other nation will take over their land, so it's merely a question of whether the ethnically non-Japanese people who will inhabit the land in the future will call themselves Japanese or not. What happens when a nation has its ethnicity completely replaced? Does it lose its national identity or not?

sofixa 4y ago

What is a Japanese person, how do you define that? For most people someone born, raised, with citizenship, fluent in the language and culture, regardless of their parents' provenance or skin colour is a a fully fledged person of that nationality and ethnicity.

Silverback_VII 4y ago
Well, that the official declaration. But we all know that it is a lie. Even for very similar ethnicities like say Italian, French, German and Swiss you can easily tell the difference. National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes.
- sofixa 4y ago
  I know two people of very close Italian descent (parents/grandparents were born in Italy) in France, and they're as French as anyone who can trace their lineage to 15th century Versailles. The only Italian parts remaining are their surnames. > National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes. Citation very much needed.
  - Silverback_VII 4y ago
    >Citation very much needed. I'm sure that there are studies but let's be honest. This is just common sense. I'm sure that if you replace Japanese people with Berbers from North Africa, Japan will look very different.
    - fluoridation 4y ago
      So you're saying that if you took 50 million Berber babies (for the sake of argument let's suppose that this is possible) and gave them to Japanese families, the next generation in Japan would be significantly more Berberish? Or are you saying that if you took 50 million adult Berbers and deposited them in Japan that Japan would be very different? If you're saying the latter: what role is genetics playing in that scenario? If you're saying the former: no, culture is not a genetic trait. Obviously.
      - areyousure 4y ago
        In case anyone is curious, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_inheritance_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_inheritance_theory mentions the canonical example of cultural and genetic coëvolution: lactose (in)tolerance. In particular, in the given hypothetical, one might predict a change in the dairy culture in Japan if suddenly the population was significantly more tolerant of lactose. (I assume the usual example of lactose intolerant is chosen because it appears some people are otherwise religiously opposed to considering the relationship between culture and genetics.)
        fluoridation 4y ago