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I wonder what will transpire for Korea and Japan. Xenophobia and Racism is commonplace and so they don't make it easy for migrants to assimilate.

pigsty 4y ago
This stereotype about 170 million people is pretty overplayed.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Perhaps but by any objective ranking it's much harder to get a permanent Visa to work in Japan that your average developed nation. I assume south Korea's similar. I don't see either nation has any choice but to accept more migrants as their native populations age.
  - pigsty 4y ago
    It’s incredibly easy to get a permanent residence visa in non-authoritarian East Asian countries, especially compared to anywhere in the west. Asia just isn’t as popular of a destination because of 1) huge language barriers, 2) wages are lower than the west, and 3) visas are contingent upon stable employment, and gaps in employment plus zero tolerance policies towards visa overstays/illegal immigration make that risky to a large proportion of people. But if you stay at a company or only job hop with offers in-hand, East Asia as a whole is insanely easy to move to, get permanent residence, or even citizenship. Anyone who’s gone through the process, doubly so those who’ve dealt with processes in the west, can readily verify this. The conditions for Japan are literally just: college degree or 10 years experience, job offer, no criminal record. Then stay a few years, don’t have a major criminal record, and you can get citizenship in as little as 5 years with a 95% acceptance rate. Permanent residence is a similar process. I felt zero obstacles the entire way. It felt like renewing an ID card and nothing more.
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      Sure, I was including the language barriers and the challenges of getting job offers and maintaining stable employment. I wouldn't consider Australia a country it's particularly easy to get a PR Visa for but if you have any experience at all in high-demand industries (esp. Health care) I gather it's pretty straightforward. My partner moved from Japan exactly on that basis (she didn't have a college degree that was recognized here, and had to do one while she was here, including learning English to a sufficiently proficient level) and seems to think it was far easier than for someone trying to go the other way.
Silverback_VII 4y ago
I find the concept of using immigration to solve the problem bizarre.. like Japan will survive but without Japanese people./
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  In many other countries, immigrants eventually become just as much a part of the country as non-immigrants. There are millions of children of immigrants in Germany who speak German just as natively as anyone else in the country, just to give you one example.
- fluoridation 4y ago
  There's no way out of a depopulation spiral other than reversing it or dying out. If they die out some other nation will take over their land, so it's merely a question of whether the ethnically non-Japanese people who will inhabit the land in the future will call themselves Japanese or not. What happens when a nation has its ethnicity completely replaced? Does it lose its national identity or not?
- sofixa 4y ago
  What is a Japanese person, how do you define that? For most people someone born, raised, with citizenship, fluent in the language and culture, regardless of their parents' provenance or skin colour is a a fully fledged person of that nationality and ethnicity.
  - Silverback_VII 4y ago
    Well, that the official declaration. But we all know that it is a lie. Even for very similar ethnicities like say Italian, French, German and Swiss you can easily tell the difference. National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      I know two people of very close Italian descent (parents/grandparents were born in Italy) in France, and they're as French as anyone who can trace their lineage to 15th century Versailles. The only Italian parts remaining are their surnames. > National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes. Citation very much needed.

pigsty 4y ago

This stereotype about 170 million people is pretty overplayed.

wizofaus 4y ago
Perhaps but by any objective ranking it's much harder to get a permanent Visa to work in Japan that your average developed nation. I assume south Korea's similar. I don't see either nation has any choice but to accept more migrants as their native populations age.
- pigsty 4y ago
  It’s incredibly easy to get a permanent residence visa in non-authoritarian East Asian countries, especially compared to anywhere in the west. Asia just isn’t as popular of a destination because of 1) huge language barriers, 2) wages are lower than the west, and 3) visas are contingent upon stable employment, and gaps in employment plus zero tolerance policies towards visa overstays/illegal immigration make that risky to a large proportion of people. But if you stay at a company or only job hop with offers in-hand, East Asia as a whole is insanely easy to move to, get permanent residence, or even citizenship. Anyone who’s gone through the process, doubly so those who’ve dealt with processes in the west, can readily verify this. The conditions for Japan are literally just: college degree or 10 years experience, job offer, no criminal record. Then stay a few years, don’t have a major criminal record, and you can get citizenship in as little as 5 years with a 95% acceptance rate. Permanent residence is a similar process. I felt zero obstacles the entire way. It felt like renewing an ID card and nothing more.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Sure, I was including the language barriers and the challenges of getting job offers and maintaining stable employment. I wouldn't consider Australia a country it's particularly easy to get a PR Visa for but if you have any experience at all in high-demand industries (esp. Health care) I gather it's pretty straightforward. My partner moved from Japan exactly on that basis (she didn't have a college degree that was recognized here, and had to do one while she was here, including learning English to a sufficiently proficient level) and seems to think it was far easier than for someone trying to go the other way.

Silverback_VII 4y ago

I find the concept of using immigration to solve the problem bizarre.. like Japan will survive but without Japanese people./

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
In many other countries, immigrants eventually become just as much a part of the country as non-immigrants. There are millions of children of immigrants in Germany who speak German just as natively as anyone else in the country, just to give you one example.
fluoridation 4y ago
There's no way out of a depopulation spiral other than reversing it or dying out. If they die out some other nation will take over their land, so it's merely a question of whether the ethnically non-Japanese people who will inhabit the land in the future will call themselves Japanese or not. What happens when a nation has its ethnicity completely replaced? Does it lose its national identity or not?
sofixa 4y ago
What is a Japanese person, how do you define that? For most people someone born, raised, with citizenship, fluent in the language and culture, regardless of their parents' provenance or skin colour is a a fully fledged person of that nationality and ethnicity.
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  Well, that the official declaration. But we all know that it is a lie. Even for very similar ethnicities like say Italian, French, German and Swiss you can easily tell the difference. National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I know two people of very close Italian descent (parents/grandparents were born in Italy) in France, and they're as French as anyone who can trace their lineage to 15th century Versailles. The only Italian parts remaining are their surnames. > National identity and culture is heavily influenced by genes. Citation very much needed.