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What does a a nation do in this situation. "I guess we will just disappear from the earth, goodbye!" Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on

What does a a nation do in this situation. "I guess we will just disappear from the earth, goodbye!" Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula.

the_omegist 4y ago
> Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula. Why? Because they are the "bad" ones?
- twelve40 4y ago
  It's bizarre because presumably a very rich, progressive, westernized society that enjoys a very high standard of living suddenly decided to go the way of the dodo bird, while their frequently ridiculed and otherwise shat-upon neighbors are still trying to hang in there. Although they will probably follow as well, just not there yet.
  - the_omegist 4y ago
    From what i know from south korean society (just from testimonies & movies : I am aware this is limited) : people are pressured at work and consummerism and shallow "westernized" culture is the norm... Not what I would call a paradise. Living in a brand new mall is not what humans strive for : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
implements 4y ago
Alternatively, populations fall until the pressures causing suppressed reproduction ease - and people start having more children. Wouldn’t it be better for a country like the UK to have a population of about 30 million? More space for everyone, self sufficient in food and renewable energy, less pollution and resource depletion, … Why not order society to maximise average quality of life instead of GDP?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > populations fall until the pressures causing suppressed reproduction ease The problem is a falling population exacerbates those stresses. The economy crunches, anti-immigrant and right-wing forces gain power; the older population won’t vote to nix their benefits in favour of younger people, so either the system veers towards collapse or someone takes away their votes.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Why would anti-immigrant voices gain power with a falling population?
    - kivle 4y ago
      When the economy is crashing and more and more of society destabilizes, a huge amount of people will always look for politicians that will sell them "an easy way out". Being the politician that talks about inconvenient truths, the need for more immigrants, the need to keep high taxes as people are getting poorer and has a message of "hang in there" generally does not win people over. Right wing anti-immigration parties sell an enemy (immigrants) as cause of all problems (they are stealing all our jobs!). In addition they sell tax breaks which also sound very appealing to people that struggle to get by on their current income. Of course all history shows that these "solutions" are lies, but history tend to repeat itself. The problem in a democracy is that the solutions that political parties present does not always have to be grounded in reality to be popular. Especially in these modern times with disinformation and conspiratorial thinking running rampant online (it's all Soros fault!).
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Why would anti-immigrant voices gain power with a falling population? I don’t think it’s a general rule. But the countries in a demographic bind are in one because they’re not getting immigrants. So as the vice tightens, we see those preëxisting tendencies amplified. This is more observational than prescriptive, mine you.
- twelve40 4y ago
twelve40 4y ago
Probably, just like the Scythians or the Phoenicians... can't really recall a peaceful precedent like that though. > Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula. It is indeed. They seem to be doing slightly better by the numbers but not looking too promising either.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  The world has been in a bit of a weird state for the last 70 years or so, with US allies basically un-attackable. I guess if a country had steep enough population loss by low fertility rates, eventually a neighbor would notice and start grabbing bits before the declining country’s economy totally collapsed or the population just vanished. People become less useful in a sword fight way before retirement age, after all. Plus, declining population doesn’t inherently provide a big dramatic marker to put in the history books like a natural disaster or battle.
corbulo 4y ago
It has to start embracing practical religious protocols surrounding fertility. Thats what they were made for. Underpop is an old problem with relatively easy solutions if your population base is large enough.

What does a a nation do in this situation. "I guess we will just disappear from the earth, goodbye!" Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula.

the_omegist 4y ago

> Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula. Why? Because they are the "bad" ones?

twelve40 4y ago
It's bizarre because presumably a very rich, progressive, westernized society that enjoys a very high standard of living suddenly decided to go the way of the dodo bird, while their frequently ridiculed and otherwise shat-upon neighbors are still trying to hang in there. Although they will probably follow as well, just not there yet.
- the_omegist 4y ago
  From what i know from south korean society (just from testimonies & movies : I am aware this is limited) : people are pressured at work and consummerism and shallow "westernized" culture is the norm... Not what I would call a paradise. Living in a brand new mall is not what humans strive for : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

implements 4y ago

Alternatively, populations fall until the pressures causing suppressed reproduction ease - and people start having more children. Wouldn’t it be better for a country like the UK to have a population of about 30 million? More space for everyone, self sufficient in food and renewable energy, less pollution and resource depletion, … Why not order society to maximise average quality of life instead of GDP?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> populations fall until the pressures causing suppressed reproduction ease The problem is a falling population exacerbates those stresses. The economy crunches, anti-immigrant and right-wing forces gain power; the older population won’t vote to nix their benefits in favour of younger people, so either the system veers towards collapse or someone takes away their votes.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Why would anti-immigrant voices gain power with a falling population?
  - kivle 4y ago
    When the economy is crashing and more and more of society destabilizes, a huge amount of people will always look for politicians that will sell them "an easy way out". Being the politician that talks about inconvenient truths, the need for more immigrants, the need to keep high taxes as people are getting poorer and has a message of "hang in there" generally does not win people over. Right wing anti-immigration parties sell an enemy (immigrants) as cause of all problems (they are stealing all our jobs!). In addition they sell tax breaks which also sound very appealing to people that struggle to get by on their current income. Of course all history shows that these "solutions" are lies, but history tend to repeat itself. The problem in a democracy is that the solutions that political parties present does not always have to be grounded in reality to be popular. Especially in these modern times with disinformation and conspiratorial thinking running rampant online (it's all Soros fault!).
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Why would anti-immigrant voices gain power with a falling population? I don’t think it’s a general rule. But the countries in a demographic bind are in one because they’re not getting immigrants. So as the vice tightens, we see those preëxisting tendencies amplified. This is more observational than prescriptive, mine you.
twelve40 4y ago

twelve40 4y ago

Probably, just like the Scythians or the Phoenicians... can't really recall a peaceful precedent like that though. > Bizarre that North Korea would be the only Koreans left on the peninsula. It is indeed. They seem to be doing slightly better by the numbers but not looking too promising either.

bee_rider 4y ago
The world has been in a bit of a weird state for the last 70 years or so, with US allies basically un-attackable. I guess if a country had steep enough population loss by low fertility rates, eventually a neighbor would notice and start grabbing bits before the declining country’s economy totally collapsed or the population just vanished. People become less useful in a sword fight way before retirement age, after all. Plus, declining population doesn’t inherently provide a big dramatic marker to put in the history books like a natural disaster or battle.

corbulo 4y ago

It has to start embracing practical religious protocols surrounding fertility. Thats what they were made for. Underpop is an old problem with relatively easy solutions if your population base is large enough.