4 ms·

AMD is having some challenges at the moment. In particular, the RDNA3 graphics card line launch has been a dud. The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of

AMD is having some challenges at the moment. In particular, the RDNA3 graphics card line launch has been a dud. The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of the AMD 7900XTX. Then there turned out to be an overheating issue on the AMD cards. And now it just looks like both Nvidia and AMD are price gouging GPU buyers instead of competing with each other. They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs, because that's what kept prices high during covid/crypto mining. I used to be really cheering for AMD as the underdog, but I guess its true that none of these companies are your friend, they're just there to shake you down. AMD had a chance to really pull ahead of Nvidia by being "the good guy" and actually offering end users great value for money, but instead they've chosen to emulate Nvidia. Substantial customer good will has been lost by AMD.

fsckboy 4y ago
>They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs you've seen evidence for this, or it's your opinion? >AMD had a chance to really pull ahead of Nvidia with a graphics card line that you just told us is far behind Nvidia's?
- ommz 4y ago
  >you've seen evidence for this, or it's your opinion? Probably alluding to the under-shipping of GPUs; stated by Lisa Su during the recent investor call[0] [0]https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/02/01/advanced-micro-devices-amd-q4-2022-earnings-call-t/ https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/02/01/ad...
- lmm 4y ago
  > with a graphics card line that you just told us is far behind Nvidia's? Cheap and good enough can absolutely be a way to win.
  - andrewstuart 4y ago
    Yup. If AMD actually competed on price then they'd be shifting the GPU market away from Nvidia. They seem content however just be second best but making bank.
- layoric 4y ago
  They had a chance to meet a much better price to performance but IMO nvidia showed that the market is willing to pay a premium for GPUs and both major players are exploiting that. Nvidia relaunched the 4080 12gb as the 4070ti reducing the price by $100. There has to be one hell of a profit margin on the high end cards.
- Brybry 4y ago
  AMD said it themselves. They're "undershipping" to "reduce downstream inventory". [1] The take from multiple[2][3][4] journalists on that call is they're trying to avoid a "supply glut" and maintain high prices. [1] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4574091-advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-q4-2022-earnings-call-transcript https://seekingalpha.com/article/4574091-advanced-micro-devi... [2] https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-undershipping-chips-to-help-prop-prices-up/ https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-undershipping-chips-to-help-prop... [3] https://gamerant.com/amd-undershipping-graphics-cards/ https://gamerant.com/amd-undershipping-graphics-cards/ [4] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-its-limiting-supply-of-cpus-and-gpus-to-maintain-high-prices https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-it...
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    you put "supply glut" in scare quotes, but again, do you know that their motive is cynical? they're talking to the public, i.e. investors, and they could easily be saying "our current sales figures are lower not because our product is not popular, but because there is currently a large inventory downstream to meet current demand. When that glut is cleared, expect our sales to resume." if downstream sellers have sufficient inventory, the only way to induce them to buy more would be for AMD to drop prices. If AMD cards are in hot demand and selling out immediately, restricting supply would be artificially boosting prices. But if the downstream pipeline is full, it's not right to say that reduced demand from wholesalers while that glut clears is AMD artificially boosting prices.
m00x 4y ago
Their graphics division has certainly been lacking vs Nvidia's cards, but are still far ahead of Intel's. Their desktop and server CPUs are crushing the market. > They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs That's simply not true. Check out TechTechPotato's youtube channel for the explanation on this, but under-shipping isn't price fixing. They're just shipping less to distributors because there's less demand, allowing the distributors and retailers to keep a stable amount on hand.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  > Their desktop and server CPUs are crushing the market. Seeing plenty of people choose 13th gen over Zen 4, the platform pricing for Zen 4 just wasn't very attractive. AMD [had to] significantly cut prices across the lineup by 20-30 %.
  - baq 4y ago
    Let’s not forget that 12th and 13th gen are actually good chips
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      Also worth remembering that for the vast majority of people, any performance differences between Intel and AMD are utterly and absolutely insignificant as to be completely meaningless. Nobody needs two-digit CPU core counts and 5~6GHz clock speeds to do their emails, communicate on Skype/Discord/Teams/Slack/Zoom/whatever, browse Facebook and Twitter, watch Youtube, and even play some vidja gaemz. An i3 or even a god damn Celeron is perfectly fine. So at that point, Intel's superior stability (read: less jank) wins out by a hair and otherwise nobody really cares because there's no practical difference. The vast majority of people will just buy whatever's cheaper or just happens to be on the display table that day.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        I keep having similar thoughts, but the software industry has shown a remarkable capacity to squander available hardware resources.
qwery 4y ago
> They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs, I'm not sure if you're referring to AMD "undershipping", but if you read how they use that word it's pretty clearly a bad thing. AMD has been shipping less (to retailers) than what they could, or would like to.
philliphaydon 4y ago
> The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of the AMD 7900XTX. 7900XTX is on par or better than 4090 in alot of games, as well as some games favouring nvidia more than amd... (obviously not talking about Ray Tracing) Coupled with a lower price... I'm not quite sure what you're talking about since you're saying the oppisite is all reviews I've seen.
- smolder 4y ago
  Maybe you're confusing the 4080 with the 4090?
- ripper1138 4y ago
  You sure? 7900 is probably better value but the 4090 outperforms it by at least 20% in games.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    It really depends on the games. Modern Warefare 2 for example, 7900xtx outperforms 4090 in every resolution. While in fortnite the 4090 outperforms the 7900xtx even more. @ 4k gaming then 4090 on average is /much/ better than the 7900xtx, but looking at 1080/1440p that lead deminishes alot. edit: At the end of the day tho its all too damn expensive now.
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      The lead diminishes at 1080p/1440p because games become more CPU bottlenecked than GPU.
mrtweetyhack 4y ago
[dead]
neogodless 4y ago
> The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of the AMD 7900XTX. I just don't get why most people care? It's 60% more expensive, too. Even the 7900XTX is ludicrous at $1000. Give me a $400 card from this generation that competes with a $500 card from the previous generation, and I'll call it a win. A $1600 card winning anything seems like an irrelevant battle. Is the volume / sales for those cards high enough to be the real focus, when cards like the GTX 1060 were the volume leaders by a long shot?

fsckboy 4y ago

>They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs you've seen evidence for this, or it's your opinion? >AMD had a chance to really pull ahead of Nvidia with a graphics card line that you just told us is far behind Nvidia's?

ommz 4y ago
>you've seen evidence for this, or it's your opinion? Probably alluding to the under-shipping of GPUs; stated by Lisa Su during the recent investor call[0] [0]https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/02/01/advanced-micro-devices-amd-q4-2022-earnings-call-t/ https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/02/01/ad...
lmm 4y ago
> with a graphics card line that you just told us is far behind Nvidia's? Cheap and good enough can absolutely be a way to win.
- andrewstuart 4y ago
  Yup. If AMD actually competed on price then they'd be shifting the GPU market away from Nvidia. They seem content however just be second best but making bank.
layoric 4y ago
They had a chance to meet a much better price to performance but IMO nvidia showed that the market is willing to pay a premium for GPUs and both major players are exploiting that. Nvidia relaunched the 4080 12gb as the 4070ti reducing the price by $100. There has to be one hell of a profit margin on the high end cards.
Brybry 4y ago
AMD said it themselves. They're "undershipping" to "reduce downstream inventory". [1] The take from multiple[2][3][4] journalists on that call is they're trying to avoid a "supply glut" and maintain high prices. [1] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4574091-advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-q4-2022-earnings-call-transcript https://seekingalpha.com/article/4574091-advanced-micro-devi... [2] https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-undershipping-chips-to-help-prop-prices-up/ https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-undershipping-chips-to-help-prop... [3] https://gamerant.com/amd-undershipping-graphics-cards/ https://gamerant.com/amd-undershipping-graphics-cards/ [4] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-its-limiting-supply-of-cpus-and-gpus-to-maintain-high-prices https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342781-amd-ceo-says-it...
- fsckboy 4y ago
  you put "supply glut" in scare quotes, but again, do you know that their motive is cynical? they're talking to the public, i.e. investors, and they could easily be saying "our current sales figures are lower not because our product is not popular, but because there is currently a large inventory downstream to meet current demand. When that glut is cleared, expect our sales to resume." if downstream sellers have sufficient inventory, the only way to induce them to buy more would be for AMD to drop prices. If AMD cards are in hot demand and selling out immediately, restricting supply would be artificially boosting prices. But if the downstream pipeline is full, it's not right to say that reduced demand from wholesalers while that glut clears is AMD artificially boosting prices.

m00x 4y ago

Their graphics division has certainly been lacking vs Nvidia's cards, but are still far ahead of Intel's. Their desktop and server CPUs are crushing the market. > They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs That's simply not true. Check out TechTechPotato's youtube channel for the explanation on this, but under-shipping isn't price fixing. They're just shipping less to distributors because there's less demand, allowing the distributors and retailers to keep a stable amount on hand.

formerly_proven 4y ago
> Their desktop and server CPUs are crushing the market. Seeing plenty of people choose 13th gen over Zen 4, the platform pricing for Zen 4 just wasn't very attractive. AMD [had to] significantly cut prices across the lineup by 20-30 %.
- baq 4y ago
  Let’s not forget that 12th and 13th gen are actually good chips
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Also worth remembering that for the vast majority of people, any performance differences between Intel and AMD are utterly and absolutely insignificant as to be completely meaningless. Nobody needs two-digit CPU core counts and 5~6GHz clock speeds to do their emails, communicate on Skype/Discord/Teams/Slack/Zoom/whatever, browse Facebook and Twitter, watch Youtube, and even play some vidja gaemz. An i3 or even a god damn Celeron is perfectly fine. So at that point, Intel's superior stability (read: less jank) wins out by a hair and otherwise nobody really cares because there's no practical difference. The vast majority of people will just buy whatever's cheaper or just happens to be on the display table that day.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
      I keep having similar thoughts, but the software industry has shown a remarkable capacity to squander available hardware resources.

qwery 4y ago

> They are deliberately keeping prices high and creating artificial shortages of GPUs, I'm not sure if you're referring to AMD "undershipping", but if you read how they use that word it's pretty clearly a bad thing. AMD has been shipping less (to retailers) than what they could, or would like to.

philliphaydon 4y ago

> The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of the AMD 7900XTX. 7900XTX is on par or better than 4090 in alot of games, as well as some games favouring nvidia more than amd... (obviously not talking about Ray Tracing) Coupled with a lower price... I'm not quite sure what you're talking about since you're saying the oppisite is all reviews I've seen.

smolder 4y ago
Maybe you're confusing the 4080 with the 4090?
ripper1138 4y ago
You sure? 7900 is probably better value but the 4090 outperforms it by at least 20% in games.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  It really depends on the games. Modern Warefare 2 for example, 7900xtx outperforms 4090 in every resolution. While in fortnite the 4090 outperforms the 7900xtx even more. @ 4k gaming then 4090 on average is /much/ better than the 7900xtx, but looking at 1080/1440p that lead deminishes alot. edit: At the end of the day tho its all too damn expensive now.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    The lead diminishes at 1080p/1440p because games become more CPU bottlenecked than GPU.

mrtweetyhack 4y ago

[dead]

neogodless 4y ago

> The Nvidia 4090 turned out to be far ahead of the AMD 7900XTX. I just don't get why most people care? It's 60% more expensive, too. Even the 7900XTX is ludicrous at $1000. Give me a $400 card from this generation that competes with a $500 card from the previous generation, and I'll call it a win. A $1600 card winning anything seems like an irrelevant battle. Is the volume / sales for those cards high enough to be the real focus, when cards like the GTX 1060 were the volume leaders by a long shot?