4 ms·

> Starlink can offer 20ms Note that for remote gaming you need a roundtrip for every interaction, meaning the minimal felt latency will be 40ms, that's almost

by fathyb 4y ago

> Starlink can offer 20ms Note that for remote gaming you need a roundtrip for every interaction, meaning the minimal felt latency will be 40ms, that's almost 3 frames, not counting all the software bookkeeping and video encoding dance. This is okay for casual games, but these can run on the hardware needed to stream games in realtime as you said, not much of a point streaming them. > A hybrid console is also possible it will have enough horse power to run “casual” games but if you want the top tier you’ll have to stream. Good point, I guess we're seeing a preview of that today with the Nintendo Switch and cloud games.

vlovich123 4y ago
You can hide the latency in very interesting ways. For example, oculus link encoded a fraction of the screen and starts sending that while the remainder is still encoding. That hides a non trivial part of the encoding latency. If you could reach further into the rendering pipeline (ie rendering the top 1/4 of the screen before the others) you could imagine reducing the effective latency even further by overlapping rendering with network transmission. It’s obviously tricky due to several reasons, but it’s not impossible (eg mobile games are rendered this way and mobile GPUs are particularly geared towards tile-based rendering). There are obviously limits to what you can do with reactivity to input but a lot of that can be mitigated with local prediction rendering.
htag 4y ago
20ms is an unacceptable amount of lag for many popular genres of gaming. Network lag (esp wireless) is often variable, which would make controls feel inconsistent. I think a significant high margin portion of the market will agree with me here. Take a look at gaming lcd monitors as an example. The response time has gone down from ~8ms to ~1ms, and these improvements are generally seen as significant.
- ironick09 4y ago
  Like what? Unless you’re a professional gamer playing a very active really time game like Counter-Strike, there is a 0 chance you notice any sort of measurable different between 10 and 20ms.
Firmwarrior 4y ago
I hate cloud gaming more than most people, but you should check the keypress-to-screen latency on recent AAA games. There's a hilarious amount of bloat there that you can invisibly cut into with clever techniques to make most games playable Twitch shooters and fighting games played at high skill levels are impossible, but a lot of stuff is entirely doable
dogma1138 4y ago
20ms on Starlink is the best case right now for a round trip latency. Today on R6S with a GSYNC monitor using a 4080 240fps tier stream on GN you get an end to end latency of 23ms this is comparable to what you’ll get on a 240hz PC build with reflex on. Yes 360hz with reflex will be better on a dedicated PC and can lower the end to end latency to 14-15ms but GN for esports is actually usable today at least in the UK.

by fathyb 4y ago

vlovich123 4y ago

You can hide the latency in very interesting ways. For example, oculus link encoded a fraction of the screen and starts sending that while the remainder is still encoding. That hides a non trivial part of the encoding latency. If you could reach further into the rendering pipeline (ie rendering the top 1/4 of the screen before the others) you could imagine reducing the effective latency even further by overlapping rendering with network transmission. It’s obviously tricky due to several reasons, but it’s not impossible (eg mobile games are rendered this way and mobile GPUs are particularly geared towards tile-based rendering). There are obviously limits to what you can do with reactivity to input but a lot of that can be mitigated with local prediction rendering.

htag 4y ago

20ms is an unacceptable amount of lag for many popular genres of gaming. Network lag (esp wireless) is often variable, which would make controls feel inconsistent. I think a significant high margin portion of the market will agree with me here. Take a look at gaming lcd monitors as an example. The response time has gone down from ~8ms to ~1ms, and these improvements are generally seen as significant.

ironick09 4y ago
Like what? Unless you’re a professional gamer playing a very active really time game like Counter-Strike, there is a 0 chance you notice any sort of measurable different between 10 and 20ms.

Firmwarrior 4y ago

I hate cloud gaming more than most people, but you should check the keypress-to-screen latency on recent AAA games. There's a hilarious amount of bloat there that you can invisibly cut into with clever techniques to make most games playable Twitch shooters and fighting games played at high skill levels are impossible, but a lot of stuff is entirely doable

dogma1138 4y ago

20ms on Starlink is the best case right now for a round trip latency. Today on R6S with a GSYNC monitor using a 4080 240fps tier stream on GN you get an end to end latency of 23ms this is comparable to what you’ll get on a 240hz PC build with reflex on. Yes 360hz with reflex will be better on a dedicated PC and can lower the end to end latency to 14-15ms but GN for esports is actually usable today at least in the UK.