10 ms·

Coin Operated Capitalism (2019)

73 points by disadvantage 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Needs a 2019 tag I believe.
- shemnon42 4y ago
  The lack of any discussion of NFTs also indicates this is a dated paper.
- miohtama 4y ago
  Despite the bad rap, the blockchain tech community has addressed many (not all) issues represented in the paper - Some of ICOs were successful and brought great products and also returns to their investors after 2018-2019 market slump - good examples include e.g. Storj, Aave, Chainlink - hit rate is similar as with any startup (~1/12 for high success) - There are real world use cases for blockchains, including stablecoin, trading, etc. though this has progressed much slower than expected - The community is not fixed with an idea that everything can be a currency without inflation and it automatically grows in value - there needs to be real revenue streams - Treasury can be controlled by DAO voting, instead of an opaque private entity (Uniswap, Aave, MakerDAO, others) - it’s no longer easy to fraud ICO investors if executed properly - Protocols can have revenue models - you are no longer buying a cryptocurrency, but a governance token - Smart contract and wallet tooling have improved - it is easier to understand smart contracts - Many more people can read smart contracts - EVM is no longer the only horse in the town, but smart contracts are written in Rust, even in JavaScript and Python However there are still risks in the cryptocurrency industry, unrelatead to ICOs - Opaque centralised exchanges and entities (hello FTX) - Scaling new ideas that lack sound foundation too fast, like Terra and USDT and other algorithmic stablecoins - Scams, though this is mostly enabled by web 2.0 social media and roots deeper in the bad moderation of Internet communications
  - itake 4y ago
    > There are real world use cases for blockchains The examples you gave are problems created by blockchains.
    - unusualmonkey 4y ago
      Isn't the irony beautiful? Blockchain is real! You can use it to store USD-like tokens and trade different coins!
      - Guthur 4y ago
        As real as any math, which is not so much. It's imaginary, just like USD. The lack of link to the physical reality which we all share is in my opinion why all these fiat systems are prone to some form of perversion.
    - ntonozzi 4y ago
      For the most part I agree, but Storj seems like it is at least attempting to solve a problem not created by blockchain: https://www.storj.io https://www.storj.io.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Storj, filecoin, and IPFS are all attempts at this problem. They don't work particularly efficiently, though, in comparison with S3 or comparable storage systems. Storage is already a commodity service, so adding a whole load of cryptographic work to prove you're still available is not an optimal thing to add to that commodity.
        Galanwe 4y ago
        I tend to think the web as we see it today is made on a lot of shortcuts made for the sake of simplicity and performance. There will be no free lunch, if we want something more distributed, reliable, secure, we will need to make compromises on simplicity and performance.
- tedunangst 4y ago
  How did the top 50 ICOs of 2022 fare?
ETH_start 4y ago
What was remarkable to me was how quickly the token sale investment sector evolved between 2016 and 2018. When token sales began in 2016, a white paper alone was enough to raise $40 million worth of cryptocurrency. By the end of the brief experiment, which ended with the SEC's entry into the sector in early 2018, the typical token investor was highly discerning, with the result being that only reputable teams were able to raise money. This transformation occurred completely independently from any regulatory action. The collective intelligence of the market increased from hard-won lessons in the need to do due diligence, and the emergence of numerous internet resources that advised on how to effectively invest in token sales. My preference would be for the government to not intervene with regulatory regimentation of the token sale market, but that obvious frauds - where a team promises the moon and then uses the money raised to buy themselves lamborghinis - be punished after the fact. In other words, that the government establish the rules of a free market - no prior restraint, but consequences if you are found to have committed fraud. Yes people would still lose money, but at least the fraudsters wouldn't learn that crime pays, and survive to defraud another day. This would provide the benefits of free market evolution, while still removing bad actors from the market.
- BoiledCabbage 4y ago
  > Yes people would still lose money, but at least the fraudsters wouldn't learn that crime pays, and survive to defraud another day. So to be clear, your solution is that the victims will still be the victims. all scammers will get away with their scams, and that of those that steal millions and choose not to hop to another country that some percentage of the will be punished? And as a result that's reasonable? There is a reason the police respond to bank robberies in progress and don't just wait to try to collect stolen cash via an investigation after the fact. The number of attempted bank robberies would be through the roof. And the reason for ignoring all of this crime is what? Because a percentage of the people presumed to be running scams might actually be doing something legit? Didn't something like half of all coins fail? With some very large percentage of the being flat our rug pulls? It's incredible the knots crypto people will twist to try to justify it. Create a whole new set of problems, then poorly solve a portion of them, worse than they are solved in other forms and then try to claim it's a breakthrough. Hopefully most of those scammers move to AI where it's harder to just directly rip people off.
pixl97 4y ago
Before I clicked on this I thought it was going to be about the coin operated gun in the follow story. https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertari...
- nickpinkston 4y ago
  You beat me too it - such a great article! Even libertarians find that one funny haha.
- Timwi 4y ago
  Paywall.
  - jbstack 4y ago
    txtify.it
kennyloginz 4y ago
Reading this made me think of the coin-op mafia. https://www.clicktrack.fm/p/the-dark-history-of-the-jukebox-how https://www.clicktrack.fm/p/the-dark-history-of-the-jukebox-...
paulpauper 4y ago
I think 99% of these became worthless , not even exaggerating. Talk about a wealth transfer scheme. worse than even the 90s tech bubble.
deleted 4y ago
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deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

73 points by disadvantage 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Needs a 2019 tag I believe.

shemnon42 4y ago
The lack of any discussion of NFTs also indicates this is a dated paper.
miohtama 4y ago
Despite the bad rap, the blockchain tech community has addressed many (not all) issues represented in the paper - Some of ICOs were successful and brought great products and also returns to their investors after 2018-2019 market slump - good examples include e.g. Storj, Aave, Chainlink - hit rate is similar as with any startup (~1/12 for high success) - There are real world use cases for blockchains, including stablecoin, trading, etc. though this has progressed much slower than expected - The community is not fixed with an idea that everything can be a currency without inflation and it automatically grows in value - there needs to be real revenue streams - Treasury can be controlled by DAO voting, instead of an opaque private entity (Uniswap, Aave, MakerDAO, others) - it’s no longer easy to fraud ICO investors if executed properly - Protocols can have revenue models - you are no longer buying a cryptocurrency, but a governance token - Smart contract and wallet tooling have improved - it is easier to understand smart contracts - Many more people can read smart contracts - EVM is no longer the only horse in the town, but smart contracts are written in Rust, even in JavaScript and Python However there are still risks in the cryptocurrency industry, unrelatead to ICOs - Opaque centralised exchanges and entities (hello FTX) - Scaling new ideas that lack sound foundation too fast, like Terra and USDT and other algorithmic stablecoins - Scams, though this is mostly enabled by web 2.0 social media and roots deeper in the bad moderation of Internet communications
- itake 4y ago
  > There are real world use cases for blockchains The examples you gave are problems created by blockchains.
  - unusualmonkey 4y ago
    Isn't the irony beautiful? Blockchain is real! You can use it to store USD-like tokens and trade different coins!
    - Guthur 4y ago
      As real as any math, which is not so much. It's imaginary, just like USD. The lack of link to the physical reality which we all share is in my opinion why all these fiat systems are prone to some form of perversion.
  - ntonozzi 4y ago
    For the most part I agree, but Storj seems like it is at least attempting to solve a problem not created by blockchain: https://www.storj.io https://www.storj.io.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      Storj, filecoin, and IPFS are all attempts at this problem. They don't work particularly efficiently, though, in comparison with S3 or comparable storage systems. Storage is already a commodity service, so adding a whole load of cryptographic work to prove you're still available is not an optimal thing to add to that commodity.
      - Galanwe 4y ago
        I tend to think the web as we see it today is made on a lot of shortcuts made for the sake of simplicity and performance. There will be no free lunch, if we want something more distributed, reliable, secure, we will need to make compromises on simplicity and performance.
tedunangst 4y ago
How did the top 50 ICOs of 2022 fare?

ETH_start 4y ago

What was remarkable to me was how quickly the token sale investment sector evolved between 2016 and 2018. When token sales began in 2016, a white paper alone was enough to raise $40 million worth of cryptocurrency. By the end of the brief experiment, which ended with the SEC's entry into the sector in early 2018, the typical token investor was highly discerning, with the result being that only reputable teams were able to raise money. This transformation occurred completely independently from any regulatory action. The collective intelligence of the market increased from hard-won lessons in the need to do due diligence, and the emergence of numerous internet resources that advised on how to effectively invest in token sales. My preference would be for the government to not intervene with regulatory regimentation of the token sale market, but that obvious frauds - where a team promises the moon and then uses the money raised to buy themselves lamborghinis - be punished after the fact. In other words, that the government establish the rules of a free market - no prior restraint, but consequences if you are found to have committed fraud. Yes people would still lose money, but at least the fraudsters wouldn't learn that crime pays, and survive to defraud another day. This would provide the benefits of free market evolution, while still removing bad actors from the market.

BoiledCabbage 4y ago
> Yes people would still lose money, but at least the fraudsters wouldn't learn that crime pays, and survive to defraud another day. So to be clear, your solution is that the victims will still be the victims. all scammers will get away with their scams, and that of those that steal millions and choose not to hop to another country that some percentage of the will be punished? And as a result that's reasonable? There is a reason the police respond to bank robberies in progress and don't just wait to try to collect stolen cash via an investigation after the fact. The number of attempted bank robberies would be through the roof. And the reason for ignoring all of this crime is what? Because a percentage of the people presumed to be running scams might actually be doing something legit? Didn't something like half of all coins fail? With some very large percentage of the being flat our rug pulls? It's incredible the knots crypto people will twist to try to justify it. Create a whole new set of problems, then poorly solve a portion of them, worse than they are solved in other forms and then try to claim it's a breakthrough. Hopefully most of those scammers move to AI where it's harder to just directly rip people off.

pixl97 4y ago

Before I clicked on this I thought it was going to be about the coin operated gun in the follow story. https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertari...

nickpinkston 4y ago
You beat me too it - such a great article! Even libertarians find that one funny haha.
Timwi 4y ago
Paywall.
- jbstack 4y ago
  txtify.it

kennyloginz 4y ago

Reading this made me think of the coin-op mafia. https://www.clicktrack.fm/p/the-dark-history-of-the-jukebox-how https://www.clicktrack.fm/p/the-dark-history-of-the-jukebox-...

paulpauper 4y ago

I think 99% of these became worthless , not even exaggerating. Talk about a wealth transfer scheme. worse than even the 90s tech bubble.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]