3 ms·

(Caveat: there are a handful of cases where the Chinese and Japanese stroke orders differ, so take care treating these as equivalent.)

Dalewyn 4y ago
This. Traditional Chinese and Japanese are two seemingly similar but distinctly different things (the latter is forked from the former). Simplified Chinese is a whole different beast of corruption that is a fork of Traditional Chinese but otherwise not similar to either.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Kanji were also simplified but not necessarily the same way as simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese also sometimes uses 'old' characters. So sometimes modern Japanese is actually similar to simplified Chinese, sometimes it is similar to traditional Chinese, and sometimes it is unique. There is no simple 'fork'. For instance, 円 (yen) is simplified Japanese and uniquely Japanese. It used to be same as traditional Chinese 圓. In Chinese it was separately simplified twice to its current form 元. So when you see prices in 円 in Japan and 元 in China it's actually the same original character simplified differently. Interestingly, traditional Chinese 國 was simplified by reusing an old character and is now 国 both in Japanese and simplified Chinese but not in traditional Chinese. Why not.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Sometimes Blink is similar to WebKit, sometimes it is similar to KHTML and sometimes it is unique. I think the fork analogy still holds, no one says forks can't have convergent evolution or cross pollination
  - ThinkingGuy 4y ago
    To further complicate things, there are the 'kokuji" - characters that were invented in Japan, used only in Japan, and only have Japanese pronunciations - yet are still considered kanji ("Chinese characters)". Examples: 働 "work" 峠 "mountain pass" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >峠 "mountain pass" Incidentially, the backstory behind that kanji is hilarious. The kanji is composed of the kanjis for "mountain" on the left side, and "up" and "down" on the upper right and lower right sides respectively. You know what a mountain pass does? Go up and down a mountain.
      - Macha 4y ago
        This is how a lot of kanji are formed. For example 町 (town) is 田 (rice paddy) + 丁 (street). I guess at some point in language formation a lot of towns were primarily collections of rice paddies.
    - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
      働 exists in Chinese too, meaning "labor" 峠 does not exist in Chinese although many Chinese dictionaries (most notably the CC-CEDICT) include it
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      I think 'kanji' should be interpreted at large. This is the Chinese writing system and inventing new characters (which happens everywhere this writing system is used) add to the whole corpus of kanji/hanzi even if some are invented or used in specific countries. 峠 has a mandarin pronunciation apparently: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929

Dalewyn 4y ago

This. Traditional Chinese and Japanese are two seemingly similar but distinctly different things (the latter is forked from the former). Simplified Chinese is a whole different beast of corruption that is a fork of Traditional Chinese but otherwise not similar to either.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Kanji were also simplified but not necessarily the same way as simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese also sometimes uses 'old' characters. So sometimes modern Japanese is actually similar to simplified Chinese, sometimes it is similar to traditional Chinese, and sometimes it is unique. There is no simple 'fork'. For instance, 円 (yen) is simplified Japanese and uniquely Japanese. It used to be same as traditional Chinese 圓. In Chinese it was separately simplified twice to its current form 元. So when you see prices in 円 in Japan and 元 in China it's actually the same original character simplified differently. Interestingly, traditional Chinese 國 was simplified by reusing an old character and is now 国 both in Japanese and simplified Chinese but not in traditional Chinese. Why not.
- Macha 4y ago
  Sometimes Blink is similar to WebKit, sometimes it is similar to KHTML and sometimes it is unique. I think the fork analogy still holds, no one says forks can't have convergent evolution or cross pollination
- ThinkingGuy 4y ago
  To further complicate things, there are the 'kokuji" - characters that were invented in Japan, used only in Japan, and only have Japanese pronunciations - yet are still considered kanji ("Chinese characters)". Examples: 働 "work" 峠 "mountain pass" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >峠 "mountain pass" Incidentially, the backstory behind that kanji is hilarious. The kanji is composed of the kanjis for "mountain" on the left side, and "up" and "down" on the upper right and lower right sides respectively. You know what a mountain pass does? Go up and down a mountain.
    - Macha 4y ago
      This is how a lot of kanji are formed. For example 町 (town) is 田 (rice paddy) + 丁 (street). I guess at some point in language formation a lot of towns were primarily collections of rice paddies.
  - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
    働 exists in Chinese too, meaning "labor" 峠 does not exist in Chinese although many Chinese dictionaries (most notably the CC-CEDICT) include it
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    I think 'kanji' should be interpreted at large. This is the Chinese writing system and inventing new characters (which happens everywhere this writing system is used) add to the whole corpus of kanji/hanzi even if some are invented or used in specific countries. 峠 has a mandarin pronunciation apparently: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929