5 ms·

Apple Not Accepting Opera Mini on iPhone

45 points by qhoxie 18y ago

juliend2 18y ago
Concurence déloyale
tptacek 18y ago
I don't believe this surprised anybody, including the Opera team.
- dmpayton 18y ago
  Agreed, it's not like this is the first time Apple has denied a "competing" application. I can't wait for Android to be released on a decent handset. Then I can give my iPhone to my wife.
  - zzzmarcus 18y ago
    I have an iPhone and have used Android on the G1 extensively... the best (if not lacking in creativity) comparison between the OS's is Android is like Ubuntu on the desktop and the iPhone is like OS X on the desktop. If you're happy using Ubuntu, you'll probably be happy using Android. I think it's going to come down to values--easy and flashy vs. open. If the Linux vs. Windows/OS X battle of the last 10 years is any indication, my guess is that the iPhone will dominate the market and Android will only win geek cred.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      Which means that I might buy an Android phone if I want a small handheld wireless computer, but I won't be using it as my actual phone.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    This isn't Podcast Listener Pro or whatever; nobody will be surprised if Apple turns down Windows Media Player or Azureus either. One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =)
    - dmpayton 18y ago
      One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. I think they were testing the waters to see how Apple would react to a larger and much better-known company putting a competing product into the app store. Unsurprisingly, Apple did the same thing they've always done. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) That fine, as long as I have the choice to be that geek. That's what attracts me (and other geeks, I'm sure) to Android the most: I have choices. If I don't like the default media player, I can install another one (or, barring that, write my own) without fear that the Almighty Apple will lay the smackdown.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        Give me a break, Derek. They weren't "testing the waters". Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone, and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky, although I really don't share your politics. But let's not be disingenuous. It's not news that you can't run Opera --- or Flash, or Skype --- on an iPhone.
        dmpayton 18y ago
        Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone... You are correct on the SDK terms, I had completely forgotten about that. IIRC, Opera would be considered an emulator since it allow you to run Javascript, yes? ...and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. Which is exactly why I said it's no surprise that Opera was turned down, although there is obviously much more to the story. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky... No need to apologize, I hadn't taken any offense. ...although I really don't share your politics. I assume that by "politics" you mean my feelings towards openness, choice, and F/OSS (since we seem to have similar feelings towards US politics, but I digress). All I'm saying is that options are good. Apple limits your options with the iPhone, so I'm looking forward to getting an Android phone in the future.
Dilpil 18y ago
Classic example of a business sacrificing long term gains for short term gains. Sure they gain money by doing this via google or whatever. But in the long run, well, this is why there is no Apple developer ecosystem.
- dmix 18y ago
  This is why there is no Apple developer ecosystem. Is this a known fact or your personal opinion? I only develop for the web but I always thought Apple had strong support from developers which is why it has some of the best designed software.
  - wizlb 18y ago
    It's fairly well known that Apple has a very small developer base and that they treat developers poorly in a number of ways. For one, they've been known to break backwards compat. like it's nobody's business. Sure, a lot of nix people use Macs now, but ask them if they're developing software for the Mac OS. Most likely, the answer is no. They're doing nix stuff. Compare the Apple developer "ecosystem" to that of the Windows and Linux world. Can you see any big differences?
    - anewaccountname 18y ago
      Yeah I can see a difference--Linux breaks backwards compatibility way more than Apple =P.
wmeredith 18y ago
It's ham-handed typical Apple, but honestly, I'm glad. One of the main reasons I enjoy developing iPhone sites is that I don't have to support a bunch of random user agents.
- trezor 18y ago
  You should be developing mobile sites, not iPhone sites. Or do you think that making "MSIE only" sites too is an acceptable way of dealing with web-pages and users?
DarkShikari 18y ago
I'm always confused by this. If Dell didn't allow Opera or Firefox or Linux to be installed on the computers they sell, or Microsoft didn't allow 3rd-party applications on Windows, people would be up in arms. But Apple is allowed to block anyone from installing any application on their own personal iPhone, and there aren't lawsuits flying?
- qqq 18y ago
  Is Apple preventing it from being installed in any way or just via Apple's app distribution mechanism? (I don't know either way, just asking.)
  - alexandros 18y ago
    just via Apple's distribution mechanism. Which is the only way to install stuff on your iPhone, short of jailbreaking it.
    - cstejerean 18y ago
      the appstore is by no means the only way to install things on your phone. as a developer you can install whatever you want on your phone including write applications that run in the background. apple will just refuse to publish said apps to the apple store.
      - qqq 18y ago
        Can other people download those off your website and install them without using any crazy hacks?
        cstejerean 18y ago
        right now you can have up to 100 beta testers for your app, but you need to generate a key for them based on their device ID.
      - erik 18y ago
ken 18y ago
Gruber at http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/10/30/opera-iphone http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/10/30/opera-iphone: "I don’t see how this is surprising at all. One can argue about whether it’s a good policy for Apple not to allow third-party web browsers on the iPhone, but unlike other rejections, this one is not arbitrary. The iPhone SDK Agreement clearly forbids writing your own JavaScript interpreter."
- anewaccountname 18y ago
  What if the only reason it forbids it is to prevent Opera, Flash, et. al. from coming to the iPhone? Then Gruber has his cause and effect wrong. Even if he doesn't, this is still sick in sort of the same way that Alumni preferences keeping blacks out of state funded schools is--sure there is technically another reason than there blackness, but the end effect is still bad.
trezor 18y ago
While I'm not surprised by this, it kinda sucks. If you are going to make mobile pages, being able to test on as many browsers as possible is a good thing. With moves like this, Apple pretty much forces me to keep a Windows Mobile phone around as well.

45 points by qhoxie 18y ago

juliend2 18y ago

Concurence déloyale

tptacek 18y ago

I don't believe this surprised anybody, including the Opera team.

dmpayton 18y ago
Agreed, it's not like this is the first time Apple has denied a "competing" application. I can't wait for Android to be released on a decent handset. Then I can give my iPhone to my wife.
- zzzmarcus 18y ago
  I have an iPhone and have used Android on the G1 extensively... the best (if not lacking in creativity) comparison between the OS's is Android is like Ubuntu on the desktop and the iPhone is like OS X on the desktop. If you're happy using Ubuntu, you'll probably be happy using Android. I think it's going to come down to values--easy and flashy vs. open. If the Linux vs. Windows/OS X battle of the last 10 years is any indication, my guess is that the iPhone will dominate the market and Android will only win geek cred.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Which means that I might buy an Android phone if I want a small handheld wireless computer, but I won't be using it as my actual phone.
- tptacek 18y ago
  This isn't Podcast Listener Pro or whatever; nobody will be surprised if Apple turns down Windows Media Player or Azureus either. One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =)
  - dmpayton 18y ago
    One expects Opera did this largely as a publicity stunt. I think they were testing the waters to see how Apple would react to a larger and much better-known company putting a competing product into the app store. Unsurprisingly, Apple did the same thing they've always done. You're going to be the one geek in the room with the Android phone and the Nomad MP3 player, you know. =) That fine, as long as I have the choice to be that geek. That's what attracts me (and other geeks, I'm sure) to Android the most: I have choices. If I don't like the default media player, I can install another one (or, barring that, write my own) without fear that the Almighty Apple will lay the smackdown.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      Give me a break, Derek. They weren't "testing the waters". Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone, and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky, although I really don't share your politics. But let's not be disingenuous. It's not news that you can't run Opera --- or Flash, or Skype --- on an iPhone.
      - dmpayton 18y ago
        Wired wrote a story in March about how the public SDK terms would prevent Firefox and Opera specifically from being allowed on the iPhone... You are correct on the SDK terms, I had completely forgotten about that. IIRC, Opera would be considered an emulator since it allow you to run Javascript, yes? ...and the story about Apple declining "competing" applications is months old too. Which is exactly why I said it's no surprise that Opera was turned down, although there is obviously much more to the story. I'm sorry for ribbing you for wanting to work on Android; I'm just being snarky... No need to apologize, I hadn't taken any offense. ...although I really don't share your politics. I assume that by "politics" you mean my feelings towards openness, choice, and F/OSS (since we seem to have similar feelings towards US politics, but I digress). All I'm saying is that options are good. Apple limits your options with the iPhone, so I'm looking forward to getting an Android phone in the future.

Dilpil 18y ago

Classic example of a business sacrificing long term gains for short term gains. Sure they gain money by doing this via google or whatever. But in the long run, well, this is why there is no Apple developer ecosystem.

dmix 18y ago
This is why there is no Apple developer ecosystem. Is this a known fact or your personal opinion? I only develop for the web but I always thought Apple had strong support from developers which is why it has some of the best designed software.
- wizlb 18y ago
  It's fairly well known that Apple has a very small developer base and that they treat developers poorly in a number of ways. For one, they've been known to break backwards compat. like it's nobody's business. Sure, a lot of nix people use Macs now, but ask them if they're developing software for the Mac OS. Most likely, the answer is no. They're doing nix stuff. Compare the Apple developer "ecosystem" to that of the Windows and Linux world. Can you see any big differences?
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    Yeah I can see a difference--Linux breaks backwards compatibility way more than Apple =P.

wmeredith 18y ago

It's ham-handed typical Apple, but honestly, I'm glad. One of the main reasons I enjoy developing iPhone sites is that I don't have to support a bunch of random user agents.

trezor 18y ago
You should be developing mobile sites, not iPhone sites. Or do you think that making "MSIE only" sites too is an acceptable way of dealing with web-pages and users?

DarkShikari 18y ago

I'm always confused by this. If Dell didn't allow Opera or Firefox or Linux to be installed on the computers they sell, or Microsoft didn't allow 3rd-party applications on Windows, people would be up in arms. But Apple is allowed to block anyone from installing any application on their own personal iPhone, and there aren't lawsuits flying?

qqq 18y ago
Is Apple preventing it from being installed in any way or just via Apple's app distribution mechanism? (I don't know either way, just asking.)
- alexandros 18y ago
  just via Apple's distribution mechanism. Which is the only way to install stuff on your iPhone, short of jailbreaking it.
  - cstejerean 18y ago
    the appstore is by no means the only way to install things on your phone. as a developer you can install whatever you want on your phone including write applications that run in the background. apple will just refuse to publish said apps to the apple store.
    - qqq 18y ago
      Can other people download those off your website and install them without using any crazy hacks?
      - cstejerean 18y ago
        right now you can have up to 100 beta testers for your app, but you need to generate a key for them based on their device ID.
    - erik 18y ago

ken 18y ago

Gruber at http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/10/30/opera-iphone http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/10/30/opera-iphone: "I don’t see how this is surprising at all. One can argue about whether it’s a good policy for Apple not to allow third-party web browsers on the iPhone, but unlike other rejections, this one is not arbitrary. The iPhone SDK Agreement clearly forbids writing your own JavaScript interpreter."

anewaccountname 18y ago
What if the only reason it forbids it is to prevent Opera, Flash, et. al. from coming to the iPhone? Then Gruber has his cause and effect wrong. Even if he doesn't, this is still sick in sort of the same way that Alumni preferences keeping blacks out of state funded schools is--sure there is technically another reason than there blackness, but the end effect is still bad.

trezor 18y ago

While I'm not surprised by this, it kinda sucks. If you are going to make mobile pages, being able to test on as many browsers as possible is a good thing. With moves like this, Apple pretty much forces me to keep a Windows Mobile phone around as well.