7 ms·

This looks very much like Make Me A Hanzi (MMAH), which is exactly the same (Chinese) characters. It's just that Japanese knows those as Kanji. https://github.

by zxspectrum1982 4y ago

This looks very much like Make Me A Hanzi (MMAH), which is exactly the same (Chinese) characters. It's just that Japanese knows those as Kanji. https://github.com/skishore/makemeahanzi https://github.com/skishore/makemeahanzi

mananaysiempre 4y ago
(Caveat: there are a handful of cases where the Chinese and Japanese stroke orders differ, so take care treating these as equivalent.)
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  This. Traditional Chinese and Japanese are two seemingly similar but distinctly different things (the latter is forked from the former). Simplified Chinese is a whole different beast of corruption that is a fork of Traditional Chinese but otherwise not similar to either.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Kanji were also simplified but not necessarily the same way as simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese also sometimes uses 'old' characters. So sometimes modern Japanese is actually similar to simplified Chinese, sometimes it is similar to traditional Chinese, and sometimes it is unique. There is no simple 'fork'. For instance, 円 (yen) is simplified Japanese and uniquely Japanese. It used to be same as traditional Chinese 圓. In Chinese it was separately simplified twice to its current form 元. So when you see prices in 円 in Japan and 元 in China it's actually the same original character simplified differently. Interestingly, traditional Chinese 國 was simplified by reusing an old character and is now 国 both in Japanese and simplified Chinese but not in traditional Chinese. Why not.
    - Macha 4y ago
      Sometimes Blink is similar to WebKit, sometimes it is similar to KHTML and sometimes it is unique. I think the fork analogy still holds, no one says forks can't have convergent evolution or cross pollination
    - ThinkingGuy 4y ago
      To further complicate things, there are the 'kokuji" - characters that were invented in Japan, used only in Japan, and only have Japanese pronunciations - yet are still considered kanji ("Chinese characters)". Examples: 働 "work" 峠 "mountain pass" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        >峠 "mountain pass" Incidentially, the backstory behind that kanji is hilarious. The kanji is composed of the kanjis for "mountain" on the left side, and "up" and "down" on the upper right and lower right sides respectively. You know what a mountain pass does? Go up and down a mountain.
        Macha 4y ago
        This is how a lot of kanji are formed. For example 町 (town) is 田 (rice paddy) + 丁 (street). I guess at some point in language formation a lot of towns were primarily collections of rice paddies.
      - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
        働 exists in Chinese too, meaning "labor" 峠 does not exist in Chinese although many Chinese dictionaries (most notably the CC-CEDICT) include it
      - mytailorisrich 4y ago
        I think 'kanji' should be interpreted at large. This is the Chinese writing system and inventing new characters (which happens everywhere this writing system is used) add to the whole corpus of kanji/hanzi even if some are invented or used in specific countries. 峠 has a mandarin pronunciation apparently: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> This looks very much like Make Me A Hanzi (MMAH), which is exactly the same (Chinese) characters. It's just that Japanese knows those as Kanji. Well "kanji" literally means "Han character".
patdx 4y ago
[dead]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fenomas 4y ago
Definitely not exactly the same. Kanji and Hanzi are two different character sets - they overlap a lot, but each has common everyday characters that aren't in the other, and sometimes the "same" character is in both sets but written differently in various languages (e.g. 骨).
- qiqitori 4y ago
  In case anyone is wondering why different glyphs have the same unicode code point, and how an app is supposed to decide which one to render... Well I don't know the reason for the first question actually, though many people appear to have some choice comments. But as for the second question: for HTML documents, many tags have a lang attribute that decide which version of the glyph to render within that tag. Hacker News has lang="en", so it'll use a user setting to decide. For example, in Firefox' about:config, there's a setting called cjk_pref_fallback_order. If e.g. ja comes first, the little square inside the top square in 骨 is rendered on the right side, if any zh thing comes first, it's rendered on the left side.
  - geokon 4y ago
    the lil inside square is inconsistent in chinese For instance traditional chinese in china will be left 過. Most computer systems will type this one But in Taiwan they do right side. That said, i dont entirely understand how it works. You cant even copy\paste the right hand version into this comment box for instance- but you can see it on wiki. Maybe theyre separate fonts? Really not sure. Maybe somebody knows better And simplified is entirely different 过
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    > In case anyone is wondering why different glyphs have the same unicode code point, and how an app is supposed to decide which one to render... Well I don't know the reason for the first question actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification My understanding is that this is basically "white guy says all Asian writing looks the same" in standards form and is largely regarded as a terrible idea.

mananaysiempre 4y ago

(Caveat: there are a handful of cases where the Chinese and Japanese stroke orders differ, so take care treating these as equivalent.)

Dalewyn 4y ago
This. Traditional Chinese and Japanese are two seemingly similar but distinctly different things (the latter is forked from the former). Simplified Chinese is a whole different beast of corruption that is a fork of Traditional Chinese but otherwise not similar to either.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Kanji were also simplified but not necessarily the same way as simplified Chinese. Simplified Chinese also sometimes uses 'old' characters. So sometimes modern Japanese is actually similar to simplified Chinese, sometimes it is similar to traditional Chinese, and sometimes it is unique. There is no simple 'fork'. For instance, 円 (yen) is simplified Japanese and uniquely Japanese. It used to be same as traditional Chinese 圓. In Chinese it was separately simplified twice to its current form 元. So when you see prices in 円 in Japan and 元 in China it's actually the same original character simplified differently. Interestingly, traditional Chinese 國 was simplified by reusing an old character and is now 国 both in Japanese and simplified Chinese but not in traditional Chinese. Why not.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Sometimes Blink is similar to WebKit, sometimes it is similar to KHTML and sometimes it is unique. I think the fork analogy still holds, no one says forks can't have convergent evolution or cross pollination
  - ThinkingGuy 4y ago
    To further complicate things, there are the 'kokuji" - characters that were invented in Japan, used only in Japan, and only have Japanese pronunciations - yet are still considered kanji ("Chinese characters)". Examples: 働 "work" 峠 "mountain pass" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji#Kokuji
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >峠 "mountain pass" Incidentially, the backstory behind that kanji is hilarious. The kanji is composed of the kanjis for "mountain" on the left side, and "up" and "down" on the upper right and lower right sides respectively. You know what a mountain pass does? Go up and down a mountain.
      - Macha 4y ago
        This is how a lot of kanji are formed. For example 町 (town) is 田 (rice paddy) + 丁 (street). I guess at some point in language formation a lot of towns were primarily collections of rice paddies.
    - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
      働 exists in Chinese too, meaning "labor" 峠 does not exist in Chinese although many Chinese dictionaries (most notably the CC-CEDICT) include it
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      I think 'kanji' should be interpreted at large. This is the Chinese writing system and inventing new characters (which happens everywhere this writing system is used) add to the whole corpus of kanji/hanzi even if some are invented or used in specific countries. 峠 has a mandarin pronunciation apparently: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929 https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%B3%A0/4336929

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> This looks very much like Make Me A Hanzi (MMAH), which is exactly the same (Chinese) characters. It's just that Japanese knows those as Kanji. Well "kanji" literally means "Han character".

patdx 4y ago

[dead]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

fenomas 4y ago

Definitely not exactly the same. Kanji and Hanzi are two different character sets - they overlap a lot, but each has common everyday characters that aren't in the other, and sometimes the "same" character is in both sets but written differently in various languages (e.g. 骨).

qiqitori 4y ago
In case anyone is wondering why different glyphs have the same unicode code point, and how an app is supposed to decide which one to render... Well I don't know the reason for the first question actually, though many people appear to have some choice comments. But as for the second question: for HTML documents, many tags have a lang attribute that decide which version of the glyph to render within that tag. Hacker News has lang="en", so it'll use a user setting to decide. For example, in Firefox' about:config, there's a setting called cjk_pref_fallback_order. If e.g. ja comes first, the little square inside the top square in 骨 is rendered on the right side, if any zh thing comes first, it's rendered on the left side.
- geokon 4y ago
  the lil inside square is inconsistent in chinese For instance traditional chinese in china will be left 過. Most computer systems will type this one But in Taiwan they do right side. That said, i dont entirely understand how it works. You cant even copy\paste the right hand version into this comment box for instance- but you can see it on wiki. Maybe theyre separate fonts? Really not sure. Maybe somebody knows better And simplified is entirely different 过
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  > In case anyone is wondering why different glyphs have the same unicode code point, and how an app is supposed to decide which one to render... Well I don't know the reason for the first question actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification My understanding is that this is basically "white guy says all Asian writing looks the same" in standards form and is largely regarded as a terrible idea.