5 ms·

I don't particularly like edge but I'm happy someone is poking the bear. Chrome dominance is bad and is too much power in the hand of one company. Competition a

by cm2187 4y ago

I don't particularly like edge but I'm happy someone is poking the bear. Chrome dominance is bad and is too much power in the hand of one company. Competition and diversity of browsers is good. And yes, I am getting "login with google" modal on half of the websites I visit even though I don't even have a google account, don't use chrome, and don't want touch anything google.

flohofwoe 4y ago
Edge is just Chrome(ium) with a Microsoft skin. A single dominating browser engine is bad, but switching to Edge doesn't change a thing.
- berniedurfee 4y ago
  Microsoft being the key term there.
- joshl32532 4y ago
  The problem with Chrome dominating is it makes Google ecosystem dominates. With Chrome, you can sync your history with your Google account, it pushes you to use Google services, sends analytics to Google etc. Edge, even with it's Chromium engine, fixes all that by offering Microsoft's ecosystem. So yes, changing to Edge does change a lot. And Google will fight to keep Chrome's lead, 100%.
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    The problem is that even Microsoft with their infinite resources has to play catch up. They have to devote developer hours to removing Google-advantaging features instead of adding their own custom goodies. And even if said goodies take off, they're going to have a hard time getting them merged back to "root Blink" and into the rest of the browser ecosystem.
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    > With Chrome, you can sync your history with your Google account, it pushes you to use Google services, sends analytics to Google etc. Yeah that's why I like using it
  - suddenexample 4y ago
    I know Microsoft has earned back a lot of goodwill especially from nerds like us due to some of the stuff they've done with VS Code, GitHub, and gaming, but I trust Google way more to not be a scumbag company. Of all the companies to hoard data, Google is in my view the most trustworthy and the most incentivized to be good stewards of said data.
- dangus 4y ago
  The idea of moving the web to a single dominating browser engine isn’t a bad one in isolation. A business monopoly is bad, but a technological monopoly is often just a standard. Nobody gets upset because every OS under the sun uses OpenSSH rather than competing with their own implementation. In contrast, Apple competing with USB with their own connectivity standard has a negative impact on basically everyone. Spin the Chromium project off of being in direct control by Google and into an industry organization and I’d be happy to settle on one browser engine. Heck, if my iPhone got to use Chromium it would be an improvement. All the proprietary corporate stuff on top of Chromium isn’t part of the open source project, anyway.
  - ameliaquining 4y ago
    I think the concern here is that, as a practical matter, vendors wouldn't be free to make arbitrary changes within their own forks; some parts of the system would have to remain interoperable. And technical decisions regarding what those parts should do and how they should work would still have to be made somehow, and it's not clear that "open source project" type governance would be better than the W3C process that we have today, especially when it comes to interfacing with governments. Good blog post about this: https://www.mnot.net/blog/2022/06/22/chromium-only https://www.mnot.net/blog/2022/06/22/chromium-only
  - 29083011397778 4y ago
    > but a technological monopoly is often just a standard. Sure. To use, participate in, and build upon this "open standard", you (or your team) just have to keep up with some of the most well-paid (presumably for a reason) programmers in the world, and then hope they see Chromium as an open standard worthy of pull requests as well.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      The model the OP mentions is exactly how openstreetmap functions. A lot of big teddy companies hire people specifically to improve it. Only Google doesn't. It's not unthinkable for a browser project to work the same way.
- roncesvalles 4y ago
  Let's not mince any words. Edge is just Chrome(ium) with Microsoft adware.
  - charrondev 4y ago
    And some nice added features. I use Edge over chrome for 2 reasons only: - It has vertical tab support out of the box (is this even possible in chrome? I know Firefox can do it with extensions) - it has very flexible support for automatically sleeping and closing unused tabs. I sleep tabs after an hour except for a couple sites I’ve whitelisted. Both of these are features other browsers either don’t have or require opening up a potential security whole to a 3rd party through extensions.
    - DangitBobby 4y ago
      I take your point but I gotta say I trust the authors of the Tree Style Tabs FF extension much more than I trust Microsoft.
      - beagle3 4y ago
        TST has a good feature set, but it is incredibly slow with a large number of tabs, to the point of being unusable on older hardware. Sideberry has every feature of TST I ever used (and a few more), and is reasonably fast.
    - xtracto 4y ago
      Ha! I just wrote a very similar reply to another comment. I use Linux in my personal laptop and about 6 months ago moved from vanilla Chrome to Edge because of the vertical tabs. The UI is really neat with the grouping and coloring. I also installed Tab Suspender because I didn't know it had the "sleeping tabs" out of the box. So far it has been a superior experience to vanilla chrome, and at least in Linux I haven't seen any "adcrap". I installed Ublock Origin and everything is pretty neat.
    - Springtime 4y ago
      > It has vertical tab support out of the box (is this even possible in chrome? Vivaldi browser[1] has supported native vertical tabs for many years (possibly since its introduction in 2015), though sadly it doesn't get as much coverage in the media or in discussions. Made by the original Opera founder who left that company in ~2010. [1] https://vivaldi.com https://vivaldi.com
- xtracto 4y ago
  Actually, I've been using Edge as my main browser in Linux for the last couple of months. The main reason is that it is the only Chrome based browser that has a good vertical tabs interface integrated. They are pretty good, with grouping, colors and whatnot. I've tried every extension in chrome but nothing comes closer. I also used to use "tree style tabs" back when I used Firefox, but I find Fx unusable nowadays. A combo of vertical-tabs, tabs-suspender and extensity are a winner mix for me in Edge. in Linux!
grenoire 4y ago
Edge is Chromium.
- pc86 4y ago
  And Chromium isn't Chrome. What's your point?
  - revolvingocelot 4y ago
    But Chrome, Chromium, and Edge are all Blink. IMO the GGP's fear of "Chrome dominance" is better expressed as "Blink dominance". I don't think anyone particularly liked Trident or EdgeHTML but at least they represented a more diverse rendering-engine-world.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      The last releases of EdgeHTML were quite good (and MUCH better than chrome for battery life).
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  fight fire with fire
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  Indeed, it's ridiculous to think that Edge does anything to keep Google in check. It's a sign of how thoroughly MS was defeated on this front that they now reskin the browser developed by their competition. Edge may be good for Microsoft, because it allows them to siphon off even more user data and (apparently) inject more ads, but it surely doesn't do anything to help the browser ecosystem.
  - creata 4y ago
    > it surely doesn't do anything to help the browser ecosystem. I'm sure it doesn't do anywhere near as much as it would if Edge had its own browser engine or JavaScript engine, but surely it does something to have a competitor who has the resources to maintain a fork if they need to?
GabeIsko 4y ago
Isn't the login with google just an OAuth thing? Most of the time, websites that use OAuth still want me to make an account with them. It's like, what is the point? Are people just implementing OAuth and then later deciding that they would like to be a provider for some reason? It seems tied to capital investment based on some conversations I have had with startup engineers...
- cm2187 4y ago
  Maybe, but google will create a modal that will overlay the website to notify me I can login to this website using google even though I am not even trying to login. Given that it is the same modal across very different websites, it has to be google being obnoxious.
  - jackson1442 4y ago
    That's something developers explicitly enable, probably because it increases conversion. It's bundled with the Sign in with Google SDK but defaults to off.
    - cassepipe 4y ago
      Maybe used to be off by default? It started popping up on a third of the pages I visit recently. Don't they know that everyone hates or are annoyed by pop up?
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        I started using Container Tabs on Firefox to isolate my Google account from everything else because of this. I found it fucking creepy that random websites would say "Hi Symbiote, log in with Google" with my real name.
      - jackson1442 4y ago
        The "off by default" applies to developers, I worked with this API about a month and a half ago. If you press the "X" button (_not_ just click off the popup) it will use an exponential backoff on your device.
anothernewdude 4y ago
They're just going to improve Chrome dominance when they fuck around with website content like this. You can't trust Edge not to edit what you see. That's hard trust to win back.
creata 4y ago
Tangent: do any of uBlock Origin's lists block the "login with google" modals?
- foepys 4y ago
  I am super annoyed by them as well. Maybe try this filter rule: ||accounts.google.com/gsi/iframe/select$subdocument This is working for me in Firefox on Android on twitter.com. I am not using any Google accounts whatsoever, though, so no guarantee that this doesn't break Google's login flow elsewhere.
  - thorncorona 4y ago
    You can disable them from Googles end. https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in-with-google-prompt-on-websites/amp/ https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in...
    - 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
      That only works if you're signed into Google, whereas the popups will also occur if you're not signed into Google.
- soundnote 4y ago
  There should be a list for them.
- aembleton 4y ago
  I block with my list here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aembleton/Arthurs-Annoyances/master/filter.txt https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aembleton/Arthurs-Annoyanc... But, you can just add this to your filters or your own list accounts.google.com$domain=~google.*|~youtube.com|~gmail.com
Phrodo_00 4y ago
> Chrome dominance is bad and is too much power in the hand of one company. But also, Blink dominance is bad, and edge does nothing in that regard.
babypuncher 4y ago
I might agree if Edge wasn't just Chrome with a bunch of Microsoft-y bells and whistles attached.
ketralnis 4y ago
Poking the bear is good but precedent for manipulating internet content hurts us all
zymhan 4y ago
> I'm happy someone is poking the bear > Competition and diversity of browsers is good Someone doesn't remember the early days of Internet Explorer

by cm2187 4y ago

flohofwoe 4y ago

Edge is just Chrome(ium) with a Microsoft skin. A single dominating browser engine is bad, but switching to Edge doesn't change a thing.

berniedurfee 4y ago
Microsoft being the key term there.
joshl32532 4y ago
The problem with Chrome dominating is it makes Google ecosystem dominates. With Chrome, you can sync your history with your Google account, it pushes you to use Google services, sends analytics to Google etc. Edge, even with it's Chromium engine, fixes all that by offering Microsoft's ecosystem. So yes, changing to Edge does change a lot. And Google will fight to keep Chrome's lead, 100%.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  The problem is that even Microsoft with their infinite resources has to play catch up. They have to devote developer hours to removing Google-advantaging features instead of adding their own custom goodies. And even if said goodies take off, they're going to have a hard time getting them merged back to "root Blink" and into the rest of the browser ecosystem.
- emodendroket 4y ago
  > With Chrome, you can sync your history with your Google account, it pushes you to use Google services, sends analytics to Google etc. Yeah that's why I like using it
- suddenexample 4y ago
  I know Microsoft has earned back a lot of goodwill especially from nerds like us due to some of the stuff they've done with VS Code, GitHub, and gaming, but I trust Google way more to not be a scumbag company. Of all the companies to hoard data, Google is in my view the most trustworthy and the most incentivized to be good stewards of said data.
dangus 4y ago
The idea of moving the web to a single dominating browser engine isn’t a bad one in isolation. A business monopoly is bad, but a technological monopoly is often just a standard. Nobody gets upset because every OS under the sun uses OpenSSH rather than competing with their own implementation. In contrast, Apple competing with USB with their own connectivity standard has a negative impact on basically everyone. Spin the Chromium project off of being in direct control by Google and into an industry organization and I’d be happy to settle on one browser engine. Heck, if my iPhone got to use Chromium it would be an improvement. All the proprietary corporate stuff on top of Chromium isn’t part of the open source project, anyway.
- ameliaquining 4y ago
  I think the concern here is that, as a practical matter, vendors wouldn't be free to make arbitrary changes within their own forks; some parts of the system would have to remain interoperable. And technical decisions regarding what those parts should do and how they should work would still have to be made somehow, and it's not clear that "open source project" type governance would be better than the W3C process that we have today, especially when it comes to interfacing with governments. Good blog post about this: https://www.mnot.net/blog/2022/06/22/chromium-only https://www.mnot.net/blog/2022/06/22/chromium-only
- 29083011397778 4y ago
  > but a technological monopoly is often just a standard. Sure. To use, participate in, and build upon this "open standard", you (or your team) just have to keep up with some of the most well-paid (presumably for a reason) programmers in the world, and then hope they see Chromium as an open standard worthy of pull requests as well.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    The model the OP mentions is exactly how openstreetmap functions. A lot of big teddy companies hire people specifically to improve it. Only Google doesn't. It's not unthinkable for a browser project to work the same way.
roncesvalles 4y ago
Let's not mince any words. Edge is just Chrome(ium) with Microsoft adware.
- charrondev 4y ago
  And some nice added features. I use Edge over chrome for 2 reasons only: - It has vertical tab support out of the box (is this even possible in chrome? I know Firefox can do it with extensions) - it has very flexible support for automatically sleeping and closing unused tabs. I sleep tabs after an hour except for a couple sites I’ve whitelisted. Both of these are features other browsers either don’t have or require opening up a potential security whole to a 3rd party through extensions.
  - DangitBobby 4y ago
    I take your point but I gotta say I trust the authors of the Tree Style Tabs FF extension much more than I trust Microsoft.
    - beagle3 4y ago
      TST has a good feature set, but it is incredibly slow with a large number of tabs, to the point of being unusable on older hardware. Sideberry has every feature of TST I ever used (and a few more), and is reasonably fast.
  - xtracto 4y ago
    Ha! I just wrote a very similar reply to another comment. I use Linux in my personal laptop and about 6 months ago moved from vanilla Chrome to Edge because of the vertical tabs. The UI is really neat with the grouping and coloring. I also installed Tab Suspender because I didn't know it had the "sleeping tabs" out of the box. So far it has been a superior experience to vanilla chrome, and at least in Linux I haven't seen any "adcrap". I installed Ublock Origin and everything is pretty neat.
  - Springtime 4y ago
    > It has vertical tab support out of the box (is this even possible in chrome? Vivaldi browser[1] has supported native vertical tabs for many years (possibly since its introduction in 2015), though sadly it doesn't get as much coverage in the media or in discussions. Made by the original Opera founder who left that company in ~2010. [1] https://vivaldi.com https://vivaldi.com
xtracto 4y ago
Actually, I've been using Edge as my main browser in Linux for the last couple of months. The main reason is that it is the only Chrome based browser that has a good vertical tabs interface integrated. They are pretty good, with grouping, colors and whatnot. I've tried every extension in chrome but nothing comes closer. I also used to use "tree style tabs" back when I used Firefox, but I find Fx unusable nowadays. A combo of vertical-tabs, tabs-suspender and extensity are a winner mix for me in Edge. in Linux!

grenoire 4y ago

Edge is Chromium.

pc86 4y ago
And Chromium isn't Chrome. What's your point?
- revolvingocelot 4y ago
  But Chrome, Chromium, and Edge are all Blink. IMO the GGP's fear of "Chrome dominance" is better expressed as "Blink dominance". I don't think anyone particularly liked Trident or EdgeHTML but at least they represented a more diverse rendering-engine-world.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    The last releases of EdgeHTML were quite good (and MUCH better than chrome for battery life).
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
fight fire with fire
JeremyNT 4y ago
Indeed, it's ridiculous to think that Edge does anything to keep Google in check. It's a sign of how thoroughly MS was defeated on this front that they now reskin the browser developed by their competition. Edge may be good for Microsoft, because it allows them to siphon off even more user data and (apparently) inject more ads, but it surely doesn't do anything to help the browser ecosystem.
- creata 4y ago
  > it surely doesn't do anything to help the browser ecosystem. I'm sure it doesn't do anywhere near as much as it would if Edge had its own browser engine or JavaScript engine, but surely it does something to have a competitor who has the resources to maintain a fork if they need to?

GabeIsko 4y ago

Isn't the login with google just an OAuth thing? Most of the time, websites that use OAuth still want me to make an account with them. It's like, what is the point? Are people just implementing OAuth and then later deciding that they would like to be a provider for some reason? It seems tied to capital investment based on some conversations I have had with startup engineers...

cm2187 4y ago
Maybe, but google will create a modal that will overlay the website to notify me I can login to this website using google even though I am not even trying to login. Given that it is the same modal across very different websites, it has to be google being obnoxious.
- jackson1442 4y ago
  That's something developers explicitly enable, probably because it increases conversion. It's bundled with the Sign in with Google SDK but defaults to off.
  - cassepipe 4y ago
    Maybe used to be off by default? It started popping up on a third of the pages I visit recently. Don't they know that everyone hates or are annoyed by pop up?
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      I started using Container Tabs on Firefox to isolate my Google account from everything else because of this. I found it fucking creepy that random websites would say "Hi Symbiote, log in with Google" with my real name.
    - jackson1442 4y ago
      The "off by default" applies to developers, I worked with this API about a month and a half ago. If you press the "X" button (_not_ just click off the popup) it will use an exponential backoff on your device.

anothernewdude 4y ago

They're just going to improve Chrome dominance when they fuck around with website content like this. You can't trust Edge not to edit what you see. That's hard trust to win back.

creata 4y ago

Tangent: do any of uBlock Origin's lists block the "login with google" modals?

foepys 4y ago
I am super annoyed by them as well. Maybe try this filter rule: ||accounts.google.com/gsi/iframe/select$subdocument This is working for me in Firefox on Android on twitter.com. I am not using any Google accounts whatsoever, though, so no guarantee that this doesn't break Google's login flow elsewhere.
- thorncorona 4y ago
  You can disable them from Googles end. https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in-with-google-prompt-on-websites/amp/ https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in...
  - 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
    That only works if you're signed into Google, whereas the popups will also occur if you're not signed into Google.
soundnote 4y ago
There should be a list for them.
aembleton 4y ago
I block with my list here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aembleton/Arthurs-Annoyances/master/filter.txt https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aembleton/Arthurs-Annoyanc... But, you can just add this to your filters or your own list accounts.google.com$domain=~google.*|~youtube.com|~gmail.com

Phrodo_00 4y ago

> Chrome dominance is bad and is too much power in the hand of one company. But also, Blink dominance is bad, and edge does nothing in that regard.

babypuncher 4y ago

I might agree if Edge wasn't just Chrome with a bunch of Microsoft-y bells and whistles attached.

ketralnis 4y ago

Poking the bear is good but precedent for manipulating internet content hurts us all

zymhan 4y ago

> I'm happy someone is poking the bear > Competition and diversity of browsers is good Someone doesn't remember the early days of Internet Explorer