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Phosgene also has very low environmental persistence. I think the actual amount of dioxin created from combustion of vinyl chloride monomer at atmospheric press

Phosgene also has very low environmental persistence. I think the actual amount of dioxin created from combustion of vinyl chloride monomer at atmospheric pressure is very low. In any event, both were dispersed into the atmosphere at concentrations that pose(d) very little danger to people outside of the temporary evacuation zone.

hammock 4y ago
I stand corrected. They did a great job and no one in East Palestine is sick
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  That is correct. Not a single person in East Palestine was hospitalized.
  - panny 4y ago
    I just wanted to follow up here. Yes, people have been hospitalized. Would you care to revise your statement? https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521 https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521
- mlindner 4y ago
  Correct. There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. There's many derailments throughout the country and chemical spills of other sorts have happened many times.
  - throwanem 4y ago
    > There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. You're saying this a decade or two early, don't you think? Cancer rates are a trailing indicator. I'm not going to try to address the normalization of deviance implicit in the rest of your comment, because what would be the point?
    - xadhominemx 4y ago
      None of the contaminants are carcinogenic, really
      - throwanem 4y ago
        > Vinyl chloride is a mutagen having clastogenic effects which affect lymphocyte chromosomal structure.[20][22] Vinyl chloride is a Group 1 human carcinogen posing elevated risks of rare angiosarcoma, brain and lung tumors, and malignant haematopoeitic lymphatic tumors.[23] Chronic exposure leads to common forms of respiratory failure (emphysema, pulmonary fibrosis) and focused hepatotoxicity (hepatomegaly, hepatic fibrosis). Continuous exposure can cause CNS depression including euphoria and disorientation. Decreased male libido, miscarriage, and birth defects are known major reproductive defects associated with vinyl chloride.
        xadhominemx 4y ago
        Yes, they found elevated rates of some cancers in people who spent their careers in poorly ventilated vinyl chloride production facilities. For the sort of concentrations and durations we’re talking about in East Palestine, it’s not carcinogenic.
        doubleg72 4y ago
        It's nice to see someone using some logic in here, there is a ton of ignorance. The only issue is that people always need to find someone to blame. Most aren't going to take facts like you have provided and use that in their assessment of the situation. My main concern would be the groundwater if anything, not the byproducts of combustion that have long blown away in the wind, or the fact Joe Biden didn't come walk around the town. I can imagine the town hall meetings are full of ignorant fools who just want to blame and be angry or political.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      My first job (1983) was as a bench tech, at a defense contractor (microwave spy stuff/TEMPEST). We all had these little bottles on our benches, with a funny silver lid that acted a bit like a "birdbath"[0]. You pumped it a couple of times, and the contents would come up, into a shallow bowl. You'd then take a long "Q-Tip" swab, dip it in the liquid, and use that to clean flux off the PCB you were fixing. They also had open buckets, and people would wash entire assemblies off, in these buckets. The liquid was trichlor[1]. We had gallons of it, sloshing around. If you got any on your hand, it made the skin turn white, and flake off. It smelled like the demon spawn of acetone and gasoline. We were assured that it was completely benign, and not to worry our pretty little heads over it. Let's just say that it can take some time to overcome [in]vested bias. [0] https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832673900981.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832673900981.html [1] https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/trichloroethylene https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s...
  - AndyMcConachie 4y ago
    People's dogs and cats just up and died. Last time I checked humans are also mammals that breath.
    - xadhominemx 4y ago
      Yes the pets were present while the controlled burn was taking place. People were evacuated.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      The chemical was especially toxic to certain types of animals (notably fish) but much less toxic to humans. Here's a video on that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19lpkjUBrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19lpkjUBrM
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jokowueu 4y ago
  All of that smoke and no one got sick ? Hard to believe
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    They evacuated people first.
    - ballenf 4y ago
      Wasn't the mandatory evacuation order only for a 1-mile radius?
      - crazygringo 4y ago
        How much larger are you suggesting it needed to be, and based on what? Since hot smoke travels upwards, I don't know what making the zone wider would have accomplished.
        lesuorac 4y ago
        I think the radius of the evacuation zone should be up to the issuer to justify. If you want a 1-mile zone it seems that you should be able to articulate why or else it should just get denied. However, it seems that wikipedia et al don't seem to have a citation as to how 1 mile was picked so it's hard to say if a smaller or larger zone should've been done. Edit: Found a chart from Ohio.gov [1] showing impact areas. It does seem to be much smaller than 1mi. > Since hot smoke travels upwards, I don't know what making the zone wider would have accomplished. I mean if hot air only went up the Earth would have no atmosphere after a sunny day. [1]: https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/east-palestine-update-evacuation-area-extended-controlled-release-of-rail-car-contents-planned-for-3-30-pm-02062023 https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/east-palestin...
  - jrockway 4y ago
    I don't want to downplay anything that happened here, but if you said a train of dihydrogen monoxide derailed and the vapors were spreading through the community, some number of people would come forward claiming to be sick. Statistically, someone is going to wake up with a cold on the day of the derailment. And the brain is a very powerful drug, if you scare someone with a chemical spill, they can show symptoms regardless of whether or not some chemical is acting on their body. This is a risky comment to make, because it sounds like I am supporting NS's cleanup plan, and I'm not. I'm just saying that people saying they're sick doesn't mean the plan was executed incorrectly.
- panny 4y ago
  >no one in East Palestine is sick Gastrointestinal bleeding https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1626288682326958083 https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1626288682326958083 Family including three year old child diagnosed respiratory infections https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1625679079520325633 https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1625679079520325633
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    It appears the family caught a cold
Blackthorn 4y ago
My friend from East Palestine took a video of the water in a creek that runs outside his house. The water is rainbow like an oil spill. This was yesterday. Whatever they combusted and dispersed, it's very much still there and I sure wouldn't want to be drinking that water.
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  Probably a biofilm.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    If it's the same photo, a biologist weighed in on it on Twitter and suggested exactly that.
- bawolff 4y ago
  I mean, i imagine that whatever contamination that is, is separate from the combustion products that went into the atmosphere.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  that sounds like iron oxidizing bacteria, did it look like this?: https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22 https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22

hammock 4y ago

I stand corrected. They did a great job and no one in East Palestine is sick

xadhominemx 4y ago
That is correct. Not a single person in East Palestine was hospitalized.
- panny 4y ago
  I just wanted to follow up here. Yes, people have been hospitalized. Would you care to revise your statement? https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521 https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521
mlindner 4y ago
Correct. There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. There's many derailments throughout the country and chemical spills of other sorts have happened many times.
- throwanem 4y ago
  > There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. You're saying this a decade or two early, don't you think? Cancer rates are a trailing indicator. I'm not going to try to address the normalization of deviance implicit in the rest of your comment, because what would be the point?
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    None of the contaminants are carcinogenic, really
    - throwanem 4y ago
      > Vinyl chloride is a mutagen having clastogenic effects which affect lymphocyte chromosomal structure.[20][22] Vinyl chloride is a Group 1 human carcinogen posing elevated risks of rare angiosarcoma, brain and lung tumors, and malignant haematopoeitic lymphatic tumors.[23] Chronic exposure leads to common forms of respiratory failure (emphysema, pulmonary fibrosis) and focused hepatotoxicity (hepatomegaly, hepatic fibrosis). Continuous exposure can cause CNS depression including euphoria and disorientation. Decreased male libido, miscarriage, and birth defects are known major reproductive defects associated with vinyl chloride.
      - xadhominemx 4y ago
        Yes, they found elevated rates of some cancers in people who spent their careers in poorly ventilated vinyl chloride production facilities. For the sort of concentrations and durations we’re talking about in East Palestine, it’s not carcinogenic.
        doubleg72 4y ago
        It's nice to see someone using some logic in here, there is a ton of ignorance. The only issue is that people always need to find someone to blame. Most aren't going to take facts like you have provided and use that in their assessment of the situation. My main concern would be the groundwater if anything, not the byproducts of combustion that have long blown away in the wind, or the fact Joe Biden didn't come walk around the town. I can imagine the town hall meetings are full of ignorant fools who just want to blame and be angry or political.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    My first job (1983) was as a bench tech, at a defense contractor (microwave spy stuff/TEMPEST). We all had these little bottles on our benches, with a funny silver lid that acted a bit like a "birdbath"[0]. You pumped it a couple of times, and the contents would come up, into a shallow bowl. You'd then take a long "Q-Tip" swab, dip it in the liquid, and use that to clean flux off the PCB you were fixing. They also had open buckets, and people would wash entire assemblies off, in these buckets. The liquid was trichlor[1]. We had gallons of it, sloshing around. If you got any on your hand, it made the skin turn white, and flake off. It smelled like the demon spawn of acetone and gasoline. We were assured that it was completely benign, and not to worry our pretty little heads over it. Let's just say that it can take some time to overcome [in]vested bias. [0] https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832673900981.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832673900981.html [1] https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/trichloroethylene https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s...
- AndyMcConachie 4y ago
  People's dogs and cats just up and died. Last time I checked humans are also mammals that breath.
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    Yes the pets were present while the controlled burn was taking place. People were evacuated.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    The chemical was especially toxic to certain types of animals (notably fish) but much less toxic to humans. Here's a video on that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19lpkjUBrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19lpkjUBrM
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jokowueu 4y ago
All of that smoke and no one got sick ? Hard to believe
- crazygringo 4y ago
  They evacuated people first.
  - ballenf 4y ago
    Wasn't the mandatory evacuation order only for a 1-mile radius?
    - crazygringo 4y ago
      How much larger are you suggesting it needed to be, and based on what? Since hot smoke travels upwards, I don't know what making the zone wider would have accomplished.
      - lesuorac 4y ago
        I think the radius of the evacuation zone should be up to the issuer to justify. If you want a 1-mile zone it seems that you should be able to articulate why or else it should just get denied. However, it seems that wikipedia et al don't seem to have a citation as to how 1 mile was picked so it's hard to say if a smaller or larger zone should've been done. Edit: Found a chart from Ohio.gov [1] showing impact areas. It does seem to be much smaller than 1mi. > Since hot smoke travels upwards, I don't know what making the zone wider would have accomplished. I mean if hot air only went up the Earth would have no atmosphere after a sunny day. [1]: https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/east-palestine-update-evacuation-area-extended-controlled-release-of-rail-car-contents-planned-for-3-30-pm-02062023 https://governor.ohio.gov/media/news-and-media/east-palestin...
- jrockway 4y ago
  I don't want to downplay anything that happened here, but if you said a train of dihydrogen monoxide derailed and the vapors were spreading through the community, some number of people would come forward claiming to be sick. Statistically, someone is going to wake up with a cold on the day of the derailment. And the brain is a very powerful drug, if you scare someone with a chemical spill, they can show symptoms regardless of whether or not some chemical is acting on their body. This is a risky comment to make, because it sounds like I am supporting NS's cleanup plan, and I'm not. I'm just saying that people saying they're sick doesn't mean the plan was executed incorrectly.
panny 4y ago
>no one in East Palestine is sick Gastrointestinal bleeding https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1626288682326958083 https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1626288682326958083 Family including three year old child diagnosed respiratory infections https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1625679079520325633 https://twitter.com/NewsNation/status/1625679079520325633
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  It appears the family caught a cold

Blackthorn 4y ago

My friend from East Palestine took a video of the water in a creek that runs outside his house. The water is rainbow like an oil spill. This was yesterday. Whatever they combusted and dispersed, it's very much still there and I sure wouldn't want to be drinking that water.

xadhominemx 4y ago
Probably a biofilm.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  If it's the same photo, a biologist weighed in on it on Twitter and suggested exactly that.
bawolff 4y ago
I mean, i imagine that whatever contamination that is, is separate from the combustion products that went into the atmosphere.
ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
that sounds like iron oxidizing bacteria, did it look like this?: https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22 https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22