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> It tells you the quality of the court, as this is likely the largest single issue of our time, touching everything from freedom to democracy to criminal law t

> It tells you the quality of the court, as this is likely the largest single issue of our time, touching everything from freedom to democracy to criminal law to the role of the judiciary and congress themselves... It doesn't really. This is one of those policy areas that the "tech subculture" tends to fixate on, but that doesn't in any way mean it's actually "the largest single issue of our time." It's pretty helpful to be mindful of your own biases and those of your subculture when making claims like that. What issues does the "tech subculture" not really pay attention to that could actually be far more significant?

LatteLazy 4y ago
With the greatest of respect, that's like saying Roe vs Wade was a niche gynaecology case or Miranda rights are just a question of procedural formalities. I am all for getting out of my tech bubble, but mass surveillance is way way beyond just the tech sector. The existence of warrantless wiretapping brings into question whether the courts even have the right to overrule government actions (a power SCOTUS gave itself back in the early days of the republic). They also circumvent key parts of 100 year old criminal law like the exclusionary rule. And that's just the legalise parts. Not to mention freedom, privacy, democracy etc.
- nceqs3 4y ago
  >The existence of warrantless wiretapping If only FISA required warrants, ohh wait!
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Which would be great if FISA courts approval rate for warrants didn't make Soviet tribunals look soft. Or if FISA actually granted warrants for mass surveillance. Which they legally can't. And when the government did it anyway and lied to the court about it and it was reveiled at least one judge resigned in protest, but government kept doing it anyway. I mean seriously, FISA is a shitty system and even that wasn't shitty enough for what the US wants to do to its own people. If you want FISA, then you actually agree that we need to shut down 99% of the NSA and bring the executive branch to heel...
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    This lacking rhetorical remark is just stupid.
janalsncm 4y ago
> What issues does the "tech subculture" not really pay attention to that could actually be far more significant? Here’s one. They heard a case Moore v Harper that tests independent state legislature theory. Should state legislatures be allowed complete control over electors? Depending on how they rule, you’ll either never hear about it again or it will own the news cycle for a month.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
What does this even mean? Right, maybe there are other significant issues. Shouldn't be a competition, no? If it wasn't significant, it wouldn't be practiced by security agencies that long withdrew themselves from control. This is a complete new form of information gathering. That people aren't really good to classify abstract dangers is certainly a problem. People that know the technical aspects are able to classify the problem and inform others that are less tech savy. The normal user doesn't know how you can correlate data and extrapolate information. Nevertheless it is very much possible to an extend never before seen in any society. What do you believe to be more significant? Ressource consumption, politics, ecologic problems? All these issues are very intertwined with any other political topic.

LatteLazy 4y ago

With the greatest of respect, that's like saying Roe vs Wade was a niche gynaecology case or Miranda rights are just a question of procedural formalities. I am all for getting out of my tech bubble, but mass surveillance is way way beyond just the tech sector. The existence of warrantless wiretapping brings into question whether the courts even have the right to overrule government actions (a power SCOTUS gave itself back in the early days of the republic). They also circumvent key parts of 100 year old criminal law like the exclusionary rule. And that's just the legalise parts. Not to mention freedom, privacy, democracy etc.

nceqs3 4y ago
>The existence of warrantless wiretapping If only FISA required warrants, ohh wait!
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Which would be great if FISA courts approval rate for warrants didn't make Soviet tribunals look soft. Or if FISA actually granted warrants for mass surveillance. Which they legally can't. And when the government did it anyway and lied to the court about it and it was reveiled at least one judge resigned in protest, but government kept doing it anyway. I mean seriously, FISA is a shitty system and even that wasn't shitty enough for what the US wants to do to its own people. If you want FISA, then you actually agree that we need to shut down 99% of the NSA and bring the executive branch to heel...
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  This lacking rhetorical remark is just stupid.

janalsncm 4y ago

> What issues does the "tech subculture" not really pay attention to that could actually be far more significant? Here’s one. They heard a case Moore v Harper that tests independent state legislature theory. Should state legislatures be allowed complete control over electors? Depending on how they rule, you’ll either never hear about it again or it will own the news cycle for a month.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

What does this even mean? Right, maybe there are other significant issues. Shouldn't be a competition, no? If it wasn't significant, it wouldn't be practiced by security agencies that long withdrew themselves from control. This is a complete new form of information gathering. That people aren't really good to classify abstract dangers is certainly a problem. People that know the technical aspects are able to classify the problem and inform others that are less tech savy. The normal user doesn't know how you can correlate data and extrapolate information. Nevertheless it is very much possible to an extend never before seen in any society. What do you believe to be more significant? Ressource consumption, politics, ecologic problems? All these issues are very intertwined with any other political topic.