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>the combustion products are relatively benign Who told you that? Phosgene and dioxins are "relatively benign"? Dioxins might more properly be called forever c
by hammock 4y ago
>the combustion products are relatively benign
Who told you that? Phosgene and dioxins are "relatively benign"? Dioxins might more properly be called forever chemicals, and will contaminate the soil and water of five states for decades.
I understand they were trying to avoid a bleve. The solution they chose was not based principally on minimizing citizen harm though
- mindslight 4y agoI haven't seen anything concrete about dioxins coming from the burning of vinyl chloride. From what I've seen, the known dioxin problem is from the burning PVC, which was in bulk cars that were ignited by the derailment (as opposed to deliberately set on fire). FWIW Only one vinyl chloride car was listed as leaking. I would think the alternative was to bring in mobile pumps, new tanker cars, and possibly chillers. And that should probably be made the default standard, rather than defaulting to "controlled" release in an emergent situation.
- mrguyorama 4y agoSomeone else a few days ago linked a paper that measured minuscule amounts of dioxins from burning vinyl chloride. Minuscule as in measurable, but probably not a concern.
- xadhominemx 4y agoPhosgene also has very low environmental persistence. I think the actual amount of dioxin created from combustion of vinyl chloride monomer at atmospheric pressure is very low. In any event, both were dispersed into the atmosphere at concentrations that pose(d) very little danger to people outside of the temporary evacuation zone.
- hammock 4y agoI stand corrected. They did a great job and no one in East Palestine is sick
- xadhominemx 4y agoThat is correct. Not a single person in East Palestine was hospitalized.
- panny 4y agoI just wanted to follow up here. Yes, people have been hospitalized. Would you care to revise your statement? https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521 https://twitter.com/StatusCoup/status/1629530227146731521
- mlindner 4y agoCorrect. There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. There's many derailments throughout the country and chemical spills of other sorts have happened many times.
- throwanem 4y ago> There is no one in East Palestine who got sick from this. You're saying this a decade or two early, don't you think? Cancer rates are a trailing indicator. I'm not going to try to address the normalization of deviance implicit in the rest of your comment, because what would be the point?
- xadhominemx 4y agoNone of the contaminants are carcinogenic, really
- throwanem 4y ago> Vinyl chloride is a mutagen having clastogenic effects which affect lymphocyte chromosomal structure.[20][22] Vinyl chloride is a Group 1 human carcinogen posing elevated risks of rare angiosarcoma, brain and lung tumors, and malignant haematopoeitic lymphatic tumors.[23] Chronic exposure leads to common forms of respiratory failure (emphysema, pulmonary fibrosis) and focused hepatotoxicity (hepatomegaly, hepatic fibrosis). Continuous exposure can cause CNS depression including euphoria and disorientation. Decreased male libido, miscarriage, and birth defects are known major reproductive defects associated with vinyl chloride.
- Blackthorn 4y agoMy friend from East Palestine took a video of the water in a creek that runs outside his house. The water is rainbow like an oil spill. This was yesterday. Whatever they combusted and dispersed, it's very much still there and I sure wouldn't want to be drinking that water.
- xadhominemx 4y agoProbably a biofilm.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoIf it's the same photo, a biologist weighed in on it on Twitter and suggested exactly that.
- bawolff 4y agoI mean, i imagine that whatever contamination that is, is separate from the combustion products that went into the atmosphere.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y agothat sounds like iron oxidizing bacteria, did it look like this?: https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22 https://stock.adobe.com/search?k=%22iron%20bacteria%22
- creato 4y agoMaybe this is out of date, but: > There is also the theoretical possibility of burning vinyl chloride forming dioxins which are known carcinogens. So far, no dioxins have been detected. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-and-nutrition-history/vinyl-chloride-and-ohio-train-derailment https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-and-nutrition-histo...
- hammock 4y agoHave they tested for dioxins? Can you share?
- doubleg72 4y agoYes, they have been testing and sharing with plenty of news outlets if you care enough to seek it out. The chemicals were burned off and have now dispersed, there is no more source to worry about for anything airborne. It's too bad this is an area of mostly poor, uneducated, right wingers that don't probably know much about chemistry or analytical thinking. Perhaps they could put their energy into ensuring the groundwater does not become contaminated instead of carrying on about things that don't matter, such as Joe Biden and air pollution.