22 ms·

Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

416 points by aepstein 15y ago

nodemaker 15y ago
On the positive side, this whole anti-"nerd" attitude actually inspires people to become tech-entrepreneurs who are financially and socially powerful.
hko 15y ago
Really? "Nerds?" I think the word you're looking for is "experts."
AgentConundrum 15y ago
I was glad to see him call them out on that. I made a similar comment here on HN about a month ago[1] saying that calling on "nerds", to me, implied a lack of respect. The replies I received, however, seemed to disagree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3358472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3358472
- jeffool 15y ago
  I'd like to have seen him make a comment to the effect of "really? Name calling? Are these people not aware of the names people call politicians?"
  - AgentConundrum 15y ago
    Perhaps in addition to what he said, sure. If I had to choose to use just one of the two, however, I'd definitely go with his "they're called experts" remark.
    - jeffool 15y ago
      Oh, agreed. Just the thought of politicians calling people names is so crazy to me, is all.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I think what you were seeing was that many "nerds" don't see the term as particularly derogatory and even self-describe as such, though I suspect several of the congressmen did mean to be derogatory in their use of it.
  - chrischen 15y ago
    They were derogatory in their use because they trivialized the fact that these "nerds" are really just experts.
  - firefoxman1 15y ago
    It's derogatory because they used it in a way to imply that they didn't particularly want to be associated with the group labeled "nerds." I've always preferred the term "geek." Anyone else feel the same way?
    - MengYuanLong 15y ago
      Reading this thread is much like reading discussions about the "n word". Coincidence? Obviously, opinions probably run deeper for the original "n word" but it is no mystery why many of us are offended when congressmen use the word with an attached set of negative connotations.
    - Robelius 15y ago
      I was thinking the exact same thing when I was watching it.
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      I've always thought "geeks" were Mac users (that was the crowd from which I heard the term used most, back in my Amiga days), and nerds were nerds. That said, I may call myself a nerd, you you best not be calling me a nerd. ;-) Seriously, though, for a group of people who like to call each other out on standards of conduct, it's pretty appalling that they used a derogatory term to jokingly dismiss their utter lack of expertise in the area.
- ibejoeb 15y ago
  Well, I agree with you. The word can certainly be used endearingly in some crowds, but this is absolutely not it. This is entirely disparaging. Language is important. There was a post on here recently about the communication problem, and it's spot-on. Just like we can't characterize SOPA/PIPA as "the anti-piracy bills," we can not allow ourselves to be demeaned. SOPA/PIPA are the internet censorship bills. They are the defeating due process bills. We are experts. We are architects and engineers of the technical infrastructure. Call yourself what you want but realize that, in the greater world, these terms serve only strip you of authority. That's unacceptable.
salem 15y ago
This is where it's all heading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
- Karunamon 15y ago
  I really wish I had the karma to downvote this. Idiocracy was a funny story, but it's hardly a documentary. Every time someone brings it up seriously, I die a little bit inside.
  - jordan0day 15y ago
    Eh, you could say the same thing about any "cautionary tale". Unless it's not a funny story, but you know what I mean. But I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm constantly torn between believing that we're really living in novel times, and the cliche that "the more things change, the more they stay the same". That is, three hundred years ago, there were a lot of ignorant, illiterate, and quite possibly just plain dumb people. The writings that survive from that period and that we're most exposed to today tend to be from the most educated folks, though. So it's easy to get the sense that everyone in 1712 was highly intelligent, had a great grasp of the English language, also knew at least Latin, and probably French, too, and that they always had interesting, novel thoughts. Then when you look around the world today, it's easy to convince yourself that society has really deteriorated. On the flip side, there really are a lot of ignorant and just plain dumb people today, too. People who say "We're turning into Idiocracy!!!!" recognize this, but they perhaps don't recognize that we used to be Idiocracy too. Perhaps we've always been Idiocracy?
    - jff 15y ago
      We're all DEVO!
  - salem 15y ago
    You've seen the clips of the hearings and the movie and were not honestly reminded of it? So you have no sense of humor? That makes me die a little on the inside...
sage_joch 15y ago
Fun fact: the SOPA page on Wikipedia was still accessible during the blackout.
- Sapient 15y ago
  It wasn't initially, they corrected that fairly early in the day though.
- SilasX 15y ago
  All pages were (intentionally) accessible, just with a little inconvenience and without disclosure of the instructions. One way as to just use the mobile version of the site: en.m.wikipedia...
bravura 15y ago
On the plus side, all the conspiracy theorists who claimed that Jon Stewart and The Daily Shows were pawns of their parent multinational media conglomerate, and thus wouldn't negatively cover SOPA, these people were wrong. On the negative side, no one in the news media or whistleblowers and WTF-watchers like Jon Stewart knew what SOPA was until two days ago. That's even scarier.
- tlrobinson 15y ago
  Scary, but on the plus side the blackouts seem to have succeeded in raising awareness.
- neilk 15y ago
  More on the plus side: Jon Stewart and his team of researchers and writers can go from knowing nothing about a topic, to absolutely nailing some of the central absurdities, in less than a week. Either comedy is easier than it looks or these guys are really good at their jobs.
  - dasil003 15y ago
    I'd be willing to bet real money that at least some of Jon Stewart's writers knew what SOPA was before two days ago. It's just a question of when it's prime for a joke.
    - scott_s 15y ago
      Not Jon Stewart himself, though. Check out the beginning of January 11th's episode: http://www.hulu.com/watch/320233/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-tue-jan-17-2012 http://www.hulu.com/watch/320233/the-daily-show-with-jon-ste... He quite candidly says he has "some reading to catch up on" with regards to SOPA.
  - btilly 15y ago
    Either comedy is easier than it looks or these guys are really good at their jobs. I vote for B.
trun 15y ago
I'm glad to see Stewart finally give this issue some coverage. I actually think the more interesting part of this bit was his montage of Daily Show clips using "copyrighted" content. It really underscores the importance of fair use and the grey area that makes copyright violations such a difficult area to police. The nerds bit was funny, but it was just the usual mockery of our elected officials he usually does.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- sage_joch 15y ago
  Lawrence Lessig has argued that fair use is not serving its intended purpose: "In theory, fair use means you need no permission... But in practice, fair use functions very differently. The fuzzy lines of the law, tied to the extraordinary liability if lines are crossed, means that the effective fair use for many types of creators is slight." So yes, it's available to people/organizations with deep pockets (like The Daily Show), but the majority of people take on considerable risk when they try to leverage it.
nekojima 15y ago
I am happy to be called a geek, nerd or expert. Thank you for the complement. :-)
- trentmb 15y ago
  In this case, however, they're laughing at you, not with you.
  - tfb 15y ago
    The joke is on them, however. "Nerds" always win in the end. This whole SOPA thing - or variations thereof - will only be small hiccup in the grand scheme of things. The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and understand the freedoms that technology provides, I think we'll really see some accelerated progression in both tech and overall quality of life for everyone. We should definitely continue to try to pave the way for future generations and reduce these setbacks, but I believe the fact still remains that freedom through technology is inevitable. It may take another couple of centuries of dealing with ignorant politicians, general closed-mindedness, and corporation unwillingness to innovate and change with the times... but we'll get there. I just wish we could live to see it. I'm afraid future generations won't appreciate it like we would.
    - ajuc 15y ago
      > The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and understand the freedoms that technology provides, I think we'll really see some accelerated progression in both tech and overall quality of life for everyone. I'd like this to happen, but this seems to me very similiar to each past generation idee fix. First christians in Rome in first century thought when everybody will convert, there would be obviously no sins, and it will be almost haeven on earth. They were right with conversion dynamic, but wrong with the social implications. The same for revolutionists, romantic nationalists, liberals, communists, hippies, and now it's our turn. Every time the change happened, but the consequences were not exactly as bright, as young idealists predicted. I'd put my money on this time being exactly the same.
pinaceae 15y ago
it points to a big shift in society and the economy. software is now a cornerstone of the world economy. modern life runs through the internet. even if you personally avoid the internet, you depend on it. but the baby boomer generation, represented by these politicians has not understood it. they know engineers as the guys building houses, bridges, aeroplanes, rockets. but software? it is an invisible world to them. child's play. how hard can it be to build the internet vs. the hoover dam. i don't think this will change soon nor can it be actively changed. we need to wait till this generation simply dies out and gets replaced by the ones who grew up with computers. for a larger part of society in the western hemisphere, that means birthdates in the 1970s. yes, gates, jobs were born earlier, but the majority of their users were born later. they were visionaries, outliers. and the circle will begin again, facebook generation vs. privacy defenders. and who knows whats after that...genetics?
- ColdAsIce 15y ago
  This is not a generational issue, this same kind of political issue has existed in all times in various forms. It is an issue of power and control, power to control distribution channels and who may produce what and when. Or framed in a better way, before the internet it was about the radio and before that it was about the telegram. The radio was not allowed to be free, pirate stations where setup all over the place and there was a movement for free radio. It was in the spirit of that time to go for the controlled option, laws where setup to prevent independent broadcasters, without the many small radio broadcasters input to the law. The issue is not the same, it is very similar, It is not a generational issue. Baby boomers made the internet, baby boomers where the hippies, they are not clueless about internet or freedom. Intelligent people make you think they are stupid.
  - wladimir 15y ago
    Agreed; this is not a generational issue, but a world-view issue. Centrally controlled versus free (as in freedom) and distributed. Centralized versus decentralized. The same kind of "battles" are happening this very moment around: - Food (organic/independent versus bio-industry) - Radio spectrum (free-for-all versus monopolies) - Currency (many distributed ones versus one central controlled world currency) - Identity (pseudonymous/anonymous versus centralized identity) - Equality (equal rights versus centralization of power) - Wealth (equally distributed versus concentrated to a few families) - Software (open source versus closed source) And so on... last decades, the trend seems to be toward centralization in each of them. However, for people to go along with that requires trust in the controlling entity. For example, trust that it is guided by a fair democratic process, or by "enlightened self-interest".
ck2 15y ago
Is "geek" too cool of a word now that they have to reach for the calculated more insulting "nerd"? (my apologies to proud nerds - but my point is that's not how they were using it) So if people who know what they are doing with computers are the equal of geeks, do politicians think they are the dumb jocks in this high school infantile throwdown?
- cpeterso 15y ago
  These politicians used the insult "nerd" because they are trying to paint SOPA protesters in a negative light and to distance themselves from responsibility for the legislation's ill effects. ("How should I have known that would happen after we passed SOPA? I'm not a nerd!")
  - ck2 15y ago
    Actually they used to have a department that informed them of all these things in a non-partisan basis. But they shut them down. http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ I'd like to think this problem will be solved when any of them over 60 now will eventually die off but unfortunately they also awarded themselves gold plated heath care. Ignorance knows no term limits and is somehow rewarded instead. ETA: added this if anyone wants to discuss OTA further: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488826 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488826
    - pgeorgi 15y ago
      Given the right position ignorance is pure gold (eg. delivered as cheques by lobbyists), no matter if "over 60" or not. We have a couple of 30-somethings in German government, they "don't get it" (and/or don't want to) either. So I'd advise against only relying on the "biological solution".
  - Jgrubb 15y ago
    I said this already above, but they used that word because that's how lobbyists from the MPAA framed the debate for them. All of these politicians are simply repeating the talking points that lobbyists feed them. Extend this to any given issue. We, as a community, must get more involved in the political process.
galaktor 15y ago
The video linked in the article was not available here (Ireland), so for all others affected, this should be it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSc9eKOcH3w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSc9eKOcH3w
- yuliyp 15y ago
  At least until Viacom takes it down, as they love to do
- bad_user 15y ago
  It's funny because it is available in Romania/Europe.
  - galaktor 15y ago
    Last time I checked, Ireland was still part of Europe :-)
    - bad_user 15y ago
      That's why I said Romania. Most online content is usually blocked for me. Even YouTube wouldn't allow me for a long time to create an account tied with Google Apps, as the feature wasn't available in my country. That's why I said it is funny - usually these websites are excluding everything but the US with maybe Germany and UK added later. However in this instance I think they've got a black list - as in, allow everyone except these countries, like Ireland (allow all versus disallow all + exceptions).
      - dhimes 15y ago
        Interesting: I'm in the US and the vid wouldn't play for me either. Galaktor's link does, however. Perhaps it's something else but censorship? EDIT: mis-credited the link
jerfelix 15y ago
I thought that Stewart made the congresspersons on the Nerds clip look all look like ignorant supporters of SOPA. The last speaker, Jason Chaffetz, who said "maybe we ought to ask some nerds what this really does" was in opposition to SOPA. Chaffetz has spoken out against SOPA since at least December 7th. See this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJrNpAcT84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJrNpAcT84 , where he also uses the term "nerds", but he's saying it in opposition to SOPA. And this clip about keeping the internet open, which dates back to 12/7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t0Pl83_Apo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t0Pl83_Apo . So, yeah, Jon Stewart is funny, but he'll use clips to make his point. This sometimes leaves the viewers with an unfairly tainted view of the person in the clip.
- Goladus 15y ago
  He's the only one making that point, though, and it's a point worth making.
- brown9-2 15y ago
  I disagree. It doesn't make Chaffetz look like a SOPA supporter. It just makes him look like someone who believes in stereotypes and put-downs.
RyanMcGreal 15y ago
Canadian link: http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Shows/TheDailyShow?videoPackage=102094 http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Shows/TheDailyShow?videoPacka...
- dhughes 15y ago
  Ironic and sad having to do this has become so commonplace nobody even blinks even more so considering the subject. I refuse to use region specific links like that. Sure the two are separate channels but breaking up the world into specific regions just segregates the Internet into castes of countries. There's no reason I a Canadian shouldn't be able to click that link and view Comedy Central a website on the world wide web.
  - RyanMcGreal 15y ago
    All I can say is that the irony of my comment wasn't lost on me. :(
mjwalshe 15y ago
And we are surprised by this? as the US is like the UK where a lot if not the majority of politicians and the 1% are lawyers. Out in the real world "engineers" are considered the little chap in oily overalls (and a flat cap) who "fixes up the roller dont cha know" Oh and that's how real engineers are seen in teh UK not some hobby php programmer cobbling together some online shoe shop by cutting and pasting
bane 15y ago
When I was a kid, nerds were picked on...now Congress is feeling threatened by us and calling our class out by name. That is a change as big as the technology the nerds brought about.
thebigshane 15y ago
Everyone here (besides `jerfelix` apparently) is missing something crucial: Jon Stewart showed 4 people using the word 'nerd'. Three of them were anti-SOPA! These were the congress(wo)men that were trying to bring in experts/techies/geeks/nerds/whatever. So, I'm sorry that the techies here were insulted by that word (I wasn't!) but most of the people using the word were actually fighting for your side! And if you listened to them in context (instead of such a short clip) I think you would have thoroughly agreed with them. I can excuse Jon Stewart for ignoring this important fact here because he is, after all, a comedian. Lofgren (Anti-SOPA) [http://lofgren.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=674&Itemid=32 http://lofgren.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&vi...] Issa (Anti-SOPA) [http://issa.house.gov/ http://issa.house.gov/] Watt (Pro-SOPA) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Watt#Support_of_SOPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Watt#Support_of_SOPA] Chaffetz (Anti-SOPA) [http://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse http://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse]
- un1xl0ser 15y ago
  >Jon Stewart showed 4 people using the word 'nerd'. Three of them were anti-SOPA! So what? Were they anti-SOPA from the beginning, or just when we started getting serious pressure applied... Even if they were instinctively anti-SOPA, would it be fine if they refer to you as something similar to carnival show (okay, that's a geek), as opposed to a concerned expert in the field? That was at least my take-away from the clip, have not watched the full episode yet. Do they refer to bankers as Till Fiddling Cash Rapists? Decorum counts for something, and we are not a side-show.
  - thebigshane 15y ago
    Lofgren, Issa and Chaffetz were anti-SOPA at least since the first hearing Dec 15th (That hearing is the source of those clips). I'm not sure when you consider "serious pressure being applied".
  - JeremyBanks 15y ago
    You're currently attacking some of the representatives who actually tried to prevent/mitigate the damage of SOPA (yes, before the PR storm) over some quotes you've heard out of context. The term "experts" actually was used as well, it's just not good comedy fodder. You shouldn't comment if you aren't at all informed on the subject.
wrs 15y ago
I suppose this is only fair, as I certainly use the term "politician" with the same dismissive tone of voice on occasion. And I have to admit that there are skills involved in being a successful politician that I don't much care to understand or appreciate. So henceforth I will use the term with more respect. Perhaps they will do the same someday.
nsxwolf 15y ago
That's one tough to parse headline.

416 points by aepstein 15y ago

On the positive side, this whole anti-"nerd" attitude actually inspires people to become tech-entrepreneurs who are financially and socially powerful.

hko 15y ago

Really? "Nerds?" I think the word you're looking for is "experts."

AgentConundrum 15y ago

I was glad to see him call them out on that. I made a similar comment here on HN about a month ago[1] saying that calling on "nerds", to me, implied a lack of respect. The replies I received, however, seemed to disagree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3358472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3358472

jeffool 15y ago
I'd like to have seen him make a comment to the effect of "really? Name calling? Are these people not aware of the names people call politicians?"
- AgentConundrum 15y ago
  Perhaps in addition to what he said, sure. If I had to choose to use just one of the two, however, I'd definitely go with his "they're called experts" remark.
  - jeffool 15y ago
    Oh, agreed. Just the thought of politicians calling people names is so crazy to me, is all.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
I think what you were seeing was that many "nerds" don't see the term as particularly derogatory and even self-describe as such, though I suspect several of the congressmen did mean to be derogatory in their use of it.
- chrischen 15y ago
  They were derogatory in their use because they trivialized the fact that these "nerds" are really just experts.
- firefoxman1 15y ago
  It's derogatory because they used it in a way to imply that they didn't particularly want to be associated with the group labeled "nerds." I've always preferred the term "geek." Anyone else feel the same way?
  - MengYuanLong 15y ago
    Reading this thread is much like reading discussions about the "n word". Coincidence? Obviously, opinions probably run deeper for the original "n word" but it is no mystery why many of us are offended when congressmen use the word with an attached set of negative connotations.
  - Robelius 15y ago
    I was thinking the exact same thing when I was watching it.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    I've always thought "geeks" were Mac users (that was the crowd from which I heard the term used most, back in my Amiga days), and nerds were nerds. That said, I may call myself a nerd, you you best not be calling me a nerd. ;-) Seriously, though, for a group of people who like to call each other out on standards of conduct, it's pretty appalling that they used a derogatory term to jokingly dismiss their utter lack of expertise in the area.
ibejoeb 15y ago
Well, I agree with you. The word can certainly be used endearingly in some crowds, but this is absolutely not it. This is entirely disparaging. Language is important. There was a post on here recently about the communication problem, and it's spot-on. Just like we can't characterize SOPA/PIPA as "the anti-piracy bills," we can not allow ourselves to be demeaned. SOPA/PIPA are the internet censorship bills. They are the defeating due process bills. We are experts. We are architects and engineers of the technical infrastructure. Call yourself what you want but realize that, in the greater world, these terms serve only strip you of authority. That's unacceptable.

salem 15y ago

This is where it's all heading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

Karunamon 15y ago
I really wish I had the karma to downvote this. Idiocracy was a funny story, but it's hardly a documentary. Every time someone brings it up seriously, I die a little bit inside.
- jordan0day 15y ago
  Eh, you could say the same thing about any "cautionary tale". Unless it's not a funny story, but you know what I mean. But I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm constantly torn between believing that we're really living in novel times, and the cliche that "the more things change, the more they stay the same". That is, three hundred years ago, there were a lot of ignorant, illiterate, and quite possibly just plain dumb people. The writings that survive from that period and that we're most exposed to today tend to be from the most educated folks, though. So it's easy to get the sense that everyone in 1712 was highly intelligent, had a great grasp of the English language, also knew at least Latin, and probably French, too, and that they always had interesting, novel thoughts. Then when you look around the world today, it's easy to convince yourself that society has really deteriorated. On the flip side, there really are a lot of ignorant and just plain dumb people today, too. People who say "We're turning into Idiocracy!!!!" recognize this, but they perhaps don't recognize that we used to be Idiocracy too. Perhaps we've always been Idiocracy?
  - jff 15y ago
    We're all DEVO!
- salem 15y ago
  You've seen the clips of the hearings and the movie and were not honestly reminded of it? So you have no sense of humor? That makes me die a little on the inside...

sage_joch 15y ago

Fun fact: the SOPA page on Wikipedia was still accessible during the blackout.

Sapient 15y ago
It wasn't initially, they corrected that fairly early in the day though.
SilasX 15y ago
All pages were (intentionally) accessible, just with a little inconvenience and without disclosure of the instructions. One way as to just use the mobile version of the site: en.m.wikipedia...

bravura 15y ago

On the plus side, all the conspiracy theorists who claimed that Jon Stewart and The Daily Shows were pawns of their parent multinational media conglomerate, and thus wouldn't negatively cover SOPA, these people were wrong. On the negative side, no one in the news media or whistleblowers and WTF-watchers like Jon Stewart knew what SOPA was until two days ago. That's even scarier.

tlrobinson 15y ago
Scary, but on the plus side the blackouts seem to have succeeded in raising awareness.
neilk 15y ago
More on the plus side: Jon Stewart and his team of researchers and writers can go from knowing nothing about a topic, to absolutely nailing some of the central absurdities, in less than a week. Either comedy is easier than it looks or these guys are really good at their jobs.
- dasil003 15y ago
  I'd be willing to bet real money that at least some of Jon Stewart's writers knew what SOPA was before two days ago. It's just a question of when it's prime for a joke.
  - scott_s 15y ago
    Not Jon Stewart himself, though. Check out the beginning of January 11th's episode: http://www.hulu.com/watch/320233/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-tue-jan-17-2012 http://www.hulu.com/watch/320233/the-daily-show-with-jon-ste... He quite candidly says he has "some reading to catch up on" with regards to SOPA.
- btilly 15y ago
  Either comedy is easier than it looks or these guys are really good at their jobs. I vote for B.

trun 15y ago

I'm glad to see Stewart finally give this issue some coverage. I actually think the more interesting part of this bit was his montage of Daily Show clips using "copyrighted" content. It really underscores the importance of fair use and the grey area that makes copyright violations such a difficult area to police. The nerds bit was funny, but it was just the usual mockery of our elected officials he usually does.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sage_joch 15y ago
Lawrence Lessig has argued that fair use is not serving its intended purpose: "In theory, fair use means you need no permission... But in practice, fair use functions very differently. The fuzzy lines of the law, tied to the extraordinary liability if lines are crossed, means that the effective fair use for many types of creators is slight." So yes, it's available to people/organizations with deep pockets (like The Daily Show), but the majority of people take on considerable risk when they try to leverage it.

nekojima 15y ago

I am happy to be called a geek, nerd or expert. Thank you for the complement. :-)

trentmb 15y ago
In this case, however, they're laughing at you, not with you.
- tfb 15y ago
  The joke is on them, however. "Nerds" always win in the end. This whole SOPA thing - or variations thereof - will only be small hiccup in the grand scheme of things. The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and understand the freedoms that technology provides, I think we'll really see some accelerated progression in both tech and overall quality of life for everyone. We should definitely continue to try to pave the way for future generations and reduce these setbacks, but I believe the fact still remains that freedom through technology is inevitable. It may take another couple of centuries of dealing with ignorant politicians, general closed-mindedness, and corporation unwillingness to innovate and change with the times... but we'll get there. I just wish we could live to see it. I'm afraid future generations won't appreciate it like we would.
  - ajuc 15y ago
    > The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and understand the freedoms that technology provides, I think we'll really see some accelerated progression in both tech and overall quality of life for everyone. I'd like this to happen, but this seems to me very similiar to each past generation idee fix. First christians in Rome in first century thought when everybody will convert, there would be obviously no sins, and it will be almost haeven on earth. They were right with conversion dynamic, but wrong with the social implications. The same for revolutionists, romantic nationalists, liberals, communists, hippies, and now it's our turn. Every time the change happened, but the consequences were not exactly as bright, as young idealists predicted. I'd put my money on this time being exactly the same.

pinaceae 15y ago

it points to a big shift in society and the economy. software is now a cornerstone of the world economy. modern life runs through the internet. even if you personally avoid the internet, you depend on it. but the baby boomer generation, represented by these politicians has not understood it. they know engineers as the guys building houses, bridges, aeroplanes, rockets. but software? it is an invisible world to them. child's play. how hard can it be to build the internet vs. the hoover dam. i don't think this will change soon nor can it be actively changed. we need to wait till this generation simply dies out and gets replaced by the ones who grew up with computers. for a larger part of society in the western hemisphere, that means birthdates in the 1970s. yes, gates, jobs were born earlier, but the majority of their users were born later. they were visionaries, outliers. and the circle will begin again, facebook generation vs. privacy defenders. and who knows whats after that...genetics?

ColdAsIce 15y ago
This is not a generational issue, this same kind of political issue has existed in all times in various forms. It is an issue of power and control, power to control distribution channels and who may produce what and when. Or framed in a better way, before the internet it was about the radio and before that it was about the telegram. The radio was not allowed to be free, pirate stations where setup all over the place and there was a movement for free radio. It was in the spirit of that time to go for the controlled option, laws where setup to prevent independent broadcasters, without the many small radio broadcasters input to the law. The issue is not the same, it is very similar, It is not a generational issue. Baby boomers made the internet, baby boomers where the hippies, they are not clueless about internet or freedom. Intelligent people make you think they are stupid.
- wladimir 15y ago
  Agreed; this is not a generational issue, but a world-view issue. Centrally controlled versus free (as in freedom) and distributed. Centralized versus decentralized. The same kind of "battles" are happening this very moment around: - Food (organic/independent versus bio-industry) - Radio spectrum (free-for-all versus monopolies) - Currency (many distributed ones versus one central controlled world currency) - Identity (pseudonymous/anonymous versus centralized identity) - Equality (equal rights versus centralization of power) - Wealth (equally distributed versus concentrated to a few families) - Software (open source versus closed source) And so on... last decades, the trend seems to be toward centralization in each of them. However, for people to go along with that requires trust in the controlling entity. For example, trust that it is guided by a fair democratic process, or by "enlightened self-interest".

ck2 15y ago

Is "geek" too cool of a word now that they have to reach for the calculated more insulting "nerd"? (my apologies to proud nerds - but my point is that's not how they were using it) So if people who know what they are doing with computers are the equal of geeks, do politicians think they are the dumb jocks in this high school infantile throwdown?

cpeterso 15y ago
These politicians used the insult "nerd" because they are trying to paint SOPA protesters in a negative light and to distance themselves from responsibility for the legislation's ill effects. ("How should I have known that would happen after we passed SOPA? I'm not a nerd!")
- ck2 15y ago
  Actually they used to have a department that informed them of all these things in a non-partisan basis. But they shut them down. http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/ I'd like to think this problem will be solved when any of them over 60 now will eventually die off but unfortunately they also awarded themselves gold plated heath care. Ignorance knows no term limits and is somehow rewarded instead. ETA: added this if anyone wants to discuss OTA further: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488826 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3488826
  - pgeorgi 15y ago
    Given the right position ignorance is pure gold (eg. delivered as cheques by lobbyists), no matter if "over 60" or not. We have a couple of 30-somethings in German government, they "don't get it" (and/or don't want to) either. So I'd advise against only relying on the "biological solution".
- Jgrubb 15y ago
  I said this already above, but they used that word because that's how lobbyists from the MPAA framed the debate for them. All of these politicians are simply repeating the talking points that lobbyists feed them. Extend this to any given issue. We, as a community, must get more involved in the political process.

galaktor 15y ago

The video linked in the article was not available here (Ireland), so for all others affected, this should be it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSc9eKOcH3w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSc9eKOcH3w

yuliyp 15y ago
At least until Viacom takes it down, as they love to do
bad_user 15y ago
It's funny because it is available in Romania/Europe.
- galaktor 15y ago
  Last time I checked, Ireland was still part of Europe :-)
  - bad_user 15y ago
    That's why I said Romania. Most online content is usually blocked for me. Even YouTube wouldn't allow me for a long time to create an account tied with Google Apps, as the feature wasn't available in my country. That's why I said it is funny - usually these websites are excluding everything but the US with maybe Germany and UK added later. However in this instance I think they've got a black list - as in, allow everyone except these countries, like Ireland (allow all versus disallow all + exceptions).
    - dhimes 15y ago
      Interesting: I'm in the US and the vid wouldn't play for me either. Galaktor's link does, however. Perhaps it's something else but censorship? EDIT: mis-credited the link

jerfelix 15y ago

I thought that Stewart made the congresspersons on the Nerds clip look all look like ignorant supporters of SOPA. The last speaker, Jason Chaffetz, who said "maybe we ought to ask some nerds what this really does" was in opposition to SOPA. Chaffetz has spoken out against SOPA since at least December 7th. See this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJrNpAcT84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJrNpAcT84 , where he also uses the term "nerds", but he's saying it in opposition to SOPA. And this clip about keeping the internet open, which dates back to 12/7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t0Pl83_Apo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t0Pl83_Apo . So, yeah, Jon Stewart is funny, but he'll use clips to make his point. This sometimes leaves the viewers with an unfairly tainted view of the person in the clip.

Goladus 15y ago
He's the only one making that point, though, and it's a point worth making.
brown9-2 15y ago
I disagree. It doesn't make Chaffetz look like a SOPA supporter. It just makes him look like someone who believes in stereotypes and put-downs.

RyanMcGreal 15y ago

Canadian link: http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Shows/TheDailyShow?videoPackage=102094 http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/Shows/TheDailyShow?videoPacka...

dhughes 15y ago
Ironic and sad having to do this has become so commonplace nobody even blinks even more so considering the subject. I refuse to use region specific links like that. Sure the two are separate channels but breaking up the world into specific regions just segregates the Internet into castes of countries. There's no reason I a Canadian shouldn't be able to click that link and view Comedy Central a website on the world wide web.
- RyanMcGreal 15y ago
  All I can say is that the irony of my comment wasn't lost on me. :(

mjwalshe 15y ago

And we are surprised by this? as the US is like the UK where a lot if not the majority of politicians and the 1% are lawyers. Out in the real world "engineers" are considered the little chap in oily overalls (and a flat cap) who "fixes up the roller dont cha know" Oh and that's how real engineers are seen in teh UK not some hobby php programmer cobbling together some online shoe shop by cutting and pasting

bane 15y ago

When I was a kid, nerds were picked on...now Congress is feeling threatened by us and calling our class out by name. That is a change as big as the technology the nerds brought about.

thebigshane 15y ago

Everyone here (besides `jerfelix` apparently) is missing something crucial: Jon Stewart showed 4 people using the word 'nerd'. Three of them were anti-SOPA! These were the congress(wo)men that were trying to bring in experts/techies/geeks/nerds/whatever. So, I'm sorry that the techies here were insulted by that word (I wasn't!) but most of the people using the word were actually fighting for your side! And if you listened to them in context (instead of such a short clip) I think you would have thoroughly agreed with them. I can excuse Jon Stewart for ignoring this important fact here because he is, after all, a comedian. Lofgren (Anti-SOPA) [http://lofgren.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=674&Itemid=32 http://lofgren.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&vi...] Issa (Anti-SOPA) [http://issa.house.gov/ http://issa.house.gov/] Watt (Pro-SOPA) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Watt#Support_of_SOPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Watt#Support_of_SOPA] Chaffetz (Anti-SOPA) [http://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse http://twitter.com/jasoninthehouse]

un1xl0ser 15y ago
>Jon Stewart showed 4 people using the word 'nerd'. Three of them were anti-SOPA! So what? Were they anti-SOPA from the beginning, or just when we started getting serious pressure applied... Even if they were instinctively anti-SOPA, would it be fine if they refer to you as something similar to carnival show (okay, that's a geek), as opposed to a concerned expert in the field? That was at least my take-away from the clip, have not watched the full episode yet. Do they refer to bankers as Till Fiddling Cash Rapists? Decorum counts for something, and we are not a side-show.
- thebigshane 15y ago
  Lofgren, Issa and Chaffetz were anti-SOPA at least since the first hearing Dec 15th (That hearing is the source of those clips). I'm not sure when you consider "serious pressure being applied".
- JeremyBanks 15y ago
  You're currently attacking some of the representatives who actually tried to prevent/mitigate the damage of SOPA (yes, before the PR storm) over some quotes you've heard out of context. The term "experts" actually was used as well, it's just not good comedy fodder. You shouldn't comment if you aren't at all informed on the subject.

wrs 15y ago

I suppose this is only fair, as I certainly use the term "politician" with the same dismissive tone of voice on occasion. And I have to admit that there are skills involved in being a successful politician that I don't much care to understand or appreciate. So henceforth I will use the term with more respect. Perhaps they will do the same someday.

nsxwolf 15y ago

That's one tough to parse headline.