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Those probably aren't meditators I would be listening to, it sounds as unhealthy as the person that attaches their identity to their ego return. Psychedelics a

by kodah 4y ago

Those probably aren't meditators I would be listening to, it sounds as unhealthy as the person that attaches their identity to their ego return. Psychedelics are a tool, and the different doses you figure out are ways of using that tool. Ego death requires a fairly heroic dose, something on the order of 3-5 grams of mushrooms for most strains. This, to me, is comparable to the isolation and introspection without breaks to incur ego death in meditation. Ego death, from my perspective, is also a tool. Done with knowledge of what will happen during and after let's the user experience the absence of ego and helps them live with their ego when it returns. Done without the knowledge of what will happen after, humans often fully embrace that ego as a new life based on wisdom. A false wisdom. My point here is the medium in which you choose is largely irrelevant. How you use the tools and the knowledge you go into them with are the paramount pieces. It's honestly surprising to me that anyone who meditates would have such judgy and pithy opinions, but it's a big world out there.

zozbot234 4y ago
> Psychedelics are a tool I don't think most users of psychedelics view them as a "tool" for serious spiritual practice. They just think tripping is a lot of fun.
- kodah 4y ago
  That's an incredibly cynical take and possibly bordering on gatekeeping based on "spiritual" boundaries. Psychedelics can be fun, but in my experience they're fun if your mind is in the right place. They act as a conduit for more deeply connecting with the world around you. On the other hand, if you have work to do then those things have a chance to appear in your trip. That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. I've had both experiences through my own isolation and meditation before. As someone with years of trauma, including a year long stint in a war zone, I can attest that my trips were sometimes fun, almost always challenging, and sometimes terrifying. As time has gone on and I've done work to unpack my trips and connect them with my experiences and understanding when I'm sober my trips have averaged to being "more fun" and "connected". This is something I was not able to achieve with meditation alone.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    > That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. Yes, and there's no guarantee that your bad trip or encounter with these entities will resolve itself without major effort. That ought to be enough to be seriously concerned about whether it is in any way appropriate to endorse this as some sort of ordinary, routine practice for the uninitiated.
    - kodah 4y ago
      This can be easily said about spirituality as well. Anecdotally, I've met far more people with higher density narcissistic traits who cover their behavior with beliefs, enlightenment, and morality than I have of those with trippers. Unlike you, I don't think spirituality is a poison pill as a result. Instead I think of it as something that must be constantly measured, dosed, and negotiated with depending on the outcomes for a particular person. This is similar to how I think of psychedelics.

by kodah 4y ago

zozbot234 4y ago

> Psychedelics are a tool I don't think most users of psychedelics view them as a "tool" for serious spiritual practice. They just think tripping is a lot of fun.

kodah 4y ago
That's an incredibly cynical take and possibly bordering on gatekeeping based on "spiritual" boundaries. Psychedelics can be fun, but in my experience they're fun if your mind is in the right place. They act as a conduit for more deeply connecting with the world around you. On the other hand, if you have work to do then those things have a chance to appear in your trip. That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. I've had both experiences through my own isolation and meditation before. As someone with years of trauma, including a year long stint in a war zone, I can attest that my trips were sometimes fun, almost always challenging, and sometimes terrifying. As time has gone on and I've done work to unpack my trips and connect them with my experiences and understanding when I'm sober my trips have averaged to being "more fun" and "connected". This is something I was not able to achieve with meditation alone.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. Yes, and there's no guarantee that your bad trip or encounter with these entities will resolve itself without major effort. That ought to be enough to be seriously concerned about whether it is in any way appropriate to endorse this as some sort of ordinary, routine practice for the uninitiated.
  - kodah 4y ago
    This can be easily said about spirituality as well. Anecdotally, I've met far more people with higher density narcissistic traits who cover their behavior with beliefs, enlightenment, and morality than I have of those with trippers. Unlike you, I don't think spirituality is a poison pill as a result. Instead I think of it as something that must be constantly measured, dosed, and negotiated with depending on the outcomes for a particular person. This is similar to how I think of psychedelics.